Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#321

Post by flandish » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:16 PM UTC

flumpcakes wrote: post #250

flandish wrote: post #204

[flagged]

Doesn't that depend on what you say 'zionism' is? If the definition of Zionism is just "a safe place" or "a country for" Jewish people, isn't that antisemitic to be anti-zionist? You don't want anywhere for Jewish people? It seems everyone is saying something different and when I see things like: > Literally anything zionism does needs to be questioned and called out I worry that we're glossing over lots of things wi…

That’s.. not what zionism is and even if it was, genocide is not ever acceptable as a way toward that end.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#322

Post by belorn » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:16 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #15

I’m not sure about “dark day for the media” but it does feel like a dark day for Israel. Once you’ve established that the government can unilaterally ban a voice for reasons of “national security” you’ve essentially given them a free pass. As Americans living post-9/11 will know, “national security” is a deliberately elastic term that can cover anything required in the moment.

I know that people in general seems to react strongly negative to government censorship, but I can not avoid seeing it through the light of recent trends of post-truth online censorships that blasted the internet during the last decade. Popularity of censorship is something that seems to go in wave, and outside the US there seems to be more acceptance to government censorship as comparative to platform censorship. In smaller countries the distinction becomes a bit blurry if it is the government doing the censorship, or the ISP's doing it voluntarily, or the dominant market platform making the same decision.

In my own industry I commonly hear people talk about self regulation in order to keep governments from interfering. This has benefits, but it also makes the action of the industry a dialog between government and private sector. Voluntarily removing undesired content is technically not censorship ordered by the government, but it is also not completely separated from the wishes of the government.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#323

Post by stefantalpalaru » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:16 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #241

afavour wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the face of double-standard world efforts to legitimize the genocidal, racist, homophobic, and misogynistic Hamas regime. I ask this question very genuinely: what world efforts are seeking to legitimize Hamas? I have seen a great many pro-Palestinian perspectives but have not seen anything pro- Hamas beyond fringe kooks. As for double standard… I think the reason you see the double standard is precisely because…

> what world efforts are seeking to legitimize Hamas? No real efforts. But a surprising number of young people don't believe Israel has a right to exist.

[dead]

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#324

Post by jdietrich » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:17 PM UTC

eganist wrote: post #273

cjk2 wrote: post #176

Just a point about Al Jazeera that is worth mentioning. There are two Al Jazeeras. One which is presented to Western audiences and one which is presented to Middle-Eastern audiences. The media and articles are politically aligned in each region. Don't assume what you read in the US/UK/wherever is the same as over there. In the case of Israel, the Middle-Eastern unit were literally showing videos demanding further upr…

This is a loaded argument that requires citations. Since you're making the claim, can you please link specific articles from the Arabic site that make your point? As well as linking which Arab countries banned it and when? It's easy to just claim something, but it's crucial to back your point up front when it's particularly sensitive so as to not inadvertently spread misinformation. You may be correct, but that's why…

>which Arab countries banned it and when?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1980191.stm

https://english.alarabiya.net/media/digital/2017/05/24/Websi...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/apr/28/al-jazeera-ban...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-egypt-censorship-idUSKBN1...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#325

Post by flandish » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:17 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #219

flandish wrote: post #204

[flagged]

Of course it's divisive. No topic is more divisive these days.

Except it should not be divisive - as the topic of a nation state’s actions toward their stated goal of genocide (I’m sorry, “mowing the lawn”) should turn everyone against said nation state. Instantly.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#326

Post by vundercind » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:17 PM UTC

erichocean wrote: post #240

exe34 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realise they had two versions, but it makes sense. Is the anti-infidel version only available in Arabic then?

CNN has two versions too, one for US audiences and one for the world.

I’m pretty sure that’s more normal than not for news orgs that have a home country or region but also compete on the global market. Some have several versions, not just two.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#327

Post by neves » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:18 PM UTC

mupuff1234 wrote: post #308

keefle wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's even banned in some Arab countries for being a security risk. If I recall Egypt partially did that after the military coup, and some Gulf countries. None of which are known for being kind to criticism. So this point is more validating of Aljazeera's position as relatively honest journalism in the a region full of dictatorships and corrupt governments.

I wouldn't say it's validating, just not necessarily invalidating. Regardless, a news organizing funded by a monarchy not exactly known for its human and civilian rights mostly like has an agenda beyond "honest journalism".

Their journalist were trained at BBC. It is funny that BBC exactly fits your definition :-)

BTW both have very high standards and make excellent journalism.

I'd like to see examples of bad Al Jazeera journalism instead of just attacks to Qatar monarchy.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#328

Post by quonn » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:18 PM UTC

joecool1029 wrote: post #226

> Haarez has good coverage. For now. They are likely to be the next outlet banned. The government has been openly threatening them for a year or so now. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-23/ty-article/is...

They will not be banned. There is zero evidence for this.

There is a big difference between banning what can only be described as a fake news outlet controlled by the adversary government of Qatar vs. banning the most important or second most important independent newspaper in the country.

When _that_ happens then the completely unjustified outrage in many comments here will be justified as that would indeed be an unprecedented step.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#329

Post by arp242 » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:18 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #247

NewJazz wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just pointing out that Israel isn't planning on agreeing to a ceasefire anytime soon. They'll probably need to have new elections.

> Israel isn't planning on agreeing to a ceasefire anytime soon A permanent one, no. But that wasn't ever on the table. A multi-week ceasefire is absolutely still on the table in exchange for hostages.

"We might agree to a cease-fire for a little bit, but I guarantee you will invade you soon anyway" is not exactly what I'd call good faith language. What's even the point of a cease-fire if you don't at least offer the possibility of something long-term? It's a completely absurd thing to say.

This has long been the problem, with the Israeli government never offering any perspective or hope on a long-term solution.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#330

Post by mrtksn » Sun, May 05, 2024, 10:18 PM UTC

angra_mainyu wrote: post #244

Animats wrote: post #150

"and block its websites." So this keeps Israelis from reading Al Jazeera. Now that's new. Israel started Internet censorship in 2017.[1] Initially it was limited to "terror group websites, online illegal gambling, prostitution services, hard drug sales". At the time, "due to warnings from rights groups that the law poses a slippery slope toward additional censorship, the final version of the legislation dictates that…

Europe has done the same with Russia. Also, I think a few other Arab countries like Egypt have blocked/banned Al Jazeera.

That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do when shooting begins because when people shoot each other this is no longer a discussion and the press is part of the warfare. Remember all the Russian media and social media accounts claiming that its American hysteria that they will invade Ukraine? They denied and mocked anyone who claimed that they will invade up until the tanks rolled in.

Personally, I'm critical of the Israeli government but I think it's in their right to try to control information flow as they are in process of driving people from their homes and mass killing people in retaliation of a terrorist attack that claimed the lives of over thousand innocent people.

I really dislike glorification war and pretending that it has rules or honour or something like that. People are taking lives en masse and its more than normal to try to control the information flow when doing it.