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As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

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Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#231

Post by wolverine876 »

dukeyukey wrote: post #172
minusLik wrote: post #67

What the article does not seem to mention is that an usual electric wheelchair costs about $65,000 (and is intended to be replaced every six years or so). This and the non-availability of replacement parts is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/ Louis Rossmann interviewed the founder of the project here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaAj59…

How tf does an electric wheelchair cost that when a standard wheelchair is a few hundred and a solid e-bike is a couple grand?

These are not just powered wheelchairs, but specialized vehicles for particular needs. Someone else in the thread describes them.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#232

Post by WalterBright »

krapp wrote: post #221
WalterBright wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which countries force you where to live and what job to work at?

I would assume at least North Korea does. But every modern state requires you to at least work and to have housing, in order to generate taxable revenue and afford the means of survival. But unless you hunt and grow your own food, own your own land and aren't subject to laws or government that owns your identity and tells you where you can go and what you can do, you aren't sovereign. If you have to spend the majorit…

I am sure you know the difference between free labor and slave labor.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#233

Post by Spooky23 »

somethoughts wrote: post #137
minusLik wrote: post #67

What the article does not seem to mention is that an usual electric wheelchair costs about $65,000 (and is intended to be replaced every six years or so). This and the non-availability of replacement parts is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/ Louis Rossmann interviewed the founder of the project here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaAj59…

To be honest - it actually seems like a risky Private Equity play as I bet the $65000 sticker price is due to the fact that Medicare is footing the bill. Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves. I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life if the price point was such that they could out of…

The Medicare wheelchairs are lowest bidder affairs procured as commodities regionally. There’s no margin there.

The crackdown on scooters was going after blatant and obvious fraud.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#234

Post by konfusinomicon »

newsclues wrote: post #177
heyoni wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the chairs and how they’re built aren’t what adds to the price tag; the fact that an insurance company is paying is what is. My daughter literally just got approved for a talking device that would otherwise cost us $4000. It’s a Samsung tablet with $300 software and an attached speaker and comes with some sort of repair agreement. I can buy and break 20 iPads for that price…and we did end up buying…

It’s similar to defence procurement. If the customer is government with endless budget, inflate costs, and use regulatory capture to maintain the cash flow.

some senator just held up a bag on bushings for use on fighter jets suring a speech..the cost for a sandwich bag full...$90k

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#235

Post by beaeglebeachh »

underlipton wrote: post #224
newsclues wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s similar to defence procurement. If the customer is government with endless budget, inflate costs, and use regulatory capture to maintain the cash flow.

Regulatory capture is likely the most important component. People complain about government spending, but those close to progressive issues can tell you that it's just as likely, if not more likely, to be remarkably stingy when it wants to be. The issue isn't government, it's who's using government; access to capital on top of that government influence gets you a lot closer to that bottomless wallet.

This is why I'm for total deregulation of healthcare. Government fucks it up so bad hamstringing access that some hack work with 15 minutes of YouTube training plus whatever pills drop out the dark web is often better than not being able to access it at all.

Right now we basically end up going to Mexico if we can help it, where there's basically no real oversight or regulation to raise cost so long as the doc/pharmacy pays off the cartels.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#236

Post by raincole »

VHRanger wrote: post #129
cogman10 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really cool that an electric wheelchair costs more than a luxury EV and is somehow less reliable.

Wheelchair users have no bargaining power against wheelchair makers. Car buyers have leverage. Normally this exorbitant price would incentivize competition in a healthy market, but the private equity players presumably make that difficult. There might also be barriers to entry in the market.

I'm feeling it's not the full story here. Presumably it shouldn't be extremely hard to produce a wheelchair, right? So why aren't there more people trying to get in this business?

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#237

Post by newsclues »

beaeglebeachh wrote: post #235
underlipton wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulatory capture is likely the most important component. People complain about government spending, but those close to progressive issues can tell you that it's just as likely, if not more likely, to be remarkably stingy when it wants to be. The issue isn't government, it's who's using government; access to capital on top of that government influence gets you a lot closer to that bottomless wallet.

This is why I'm for total deregulation of healthcare. Government fucks it up so bad hamstringing access that some hack work with 15 minutes of YouTube training plus whatever pills drop out the dark web is often better than not being able to access it at all. Right now we basically end up going to Mexico if we can help it, where there's basically no real oversight or regulation to raise cost so long as the doc/pharmac…

Regulations should be voluntary and exist in a market with options.

I want a market where I can choose a highly regulated healthcare system or a system with no regulations and a system somewhere in between.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#238

Post by Spivak »

Eggs-n-Jakey wrote: post #210
loceng wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the military industrial complex.

Ya this reminded my of a Palmer Lucky interview where he explained how the prices are created. Can't remember off the top of my head but there was substantial incentive to build with the most expensive materials, doesn't seem like the case here though.

From a friend who is a Navy engineer this is apparently on purpose is done as a form of economic stimulus. Overpay 10x for things to support the local economy around the base.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#239

Post by harimau777 »

raincole wrote: post #236
VHRanger wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wheelchair users have no bargaining power against wheelchair makers. Car buyers have leverage. Normally this exorbitant price would incentivize competition in a healthy market, but the private equity players presumably make that difficult. There might also be barriers to entry in the market.

I'm feeling it's not the full story here. Presumably it shouldn't be extremely hard to produce a wheelchair, right? So why aren't there more people trying to get in this business?

Perhaps the wheelchair is considered a medical device and therefore has to go through more expensive safety tests and/or liability insurance?

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#240

Post by eru »

somethoughts wrote: post #137
minusLik wrote: post #67

What the article does not seem to mention is that an usual electric wheelchair costs about $65,000 (and is intended to be replaced every six years or so). This and the non-availability of replacement parts is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/ Louis Rossmann interviewed the founder of the project here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaAj59…

To be honest - it actually seems like a risky Private Equity play as I bet the $65000 sticker price is due to the fact that Medicare is footing the bill. Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves. I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life if the price point was such that they could out of…

> I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life [...]

Probably even a higher quality of life, because the manufacturer can make arbitrary changes to the unregulated scooter in response to market demands.

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