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As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

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Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#121

Post by xnyan »

RecycledEle wrote: post #85

I deal with wheelchairs, electric wheelchairs, oxygen systems, CPAPs, spirometry, and more every day. Electric wheelchairs are built to be very rugged and dirt simple. There are 2 problems: The first problem is insurance. People expect their insurance to cover everything. If they need a new set of 35 AH SLA batteries, they will throw their old chair away and ask for a new chair on insurance. The second problem is tha…

> One connector broke and was impossible to replace.

This is not a solution that would help the wheelchair user, but if you have a set of inexpensive ($10 bought in the US, less from china) 3" digital calipers, you could likely measure the socket and get it 3D printed. I've done it for obsolete electrical connectors in cars and while it takes time and some effort, it's very doable.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#122

Post by yumraj »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #80
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how would it fix things then if it wasn't private equity dominating that market? I'd start importing them for less than $500 from India [1]. (Versus $1,500 to $6,000 for these jalopies.) [1] https://www.amazon.in/electric-wheelchair/s?k=electric+wheel...

The regulations don't just disappear to allow for such imports as in your example ...?

The price difference seems to be enough for a person to fly to India and bring one with them.

Can the FDA stop a person from using one by coming to their home and confiscating it?

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#123

Post by readyman »

icegreentea2 wrote: post #116
renewiltord wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only just noticed that the wheelchair https://libertymemesfoundation.org/donations/endurance-the-o... is actually a Class 2 device. That sounds really hard to get past the FDA. I think it's pretty cool still because folks with the knowhow could make their own, but the disabled are probably SOL because you can't really make these for sale without that. I suppose the FDA's reasoning is that they're better off having…

I don't think powered wheelchairs should be Class II, but we should be a bit kinder to the FDA. The FDA is not comparing no mobility and simply an inoperable device, the FDA is comparing no mobility vs the possible outcomes of an malfunctioning device. Like perhaps what happens if the throttle gets stuck on forward.

The FDA serves many compromised purposes that, in sum, prioritize the interests of the capitalists who predominately control it. The same can be said for the entire US government.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#124

Post by mistermann »

readyman wrote: post #114
mistermann wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism moderated by various systems emerging from a genuine, sophisticated democratic system would be my advice. We have a lot of work to get from here to there though, and much of it is the undoing of mass psychological condition.

Capital will simply undermine the democracy again . It's literally that simple. Capitalism and democracy are fundamentally at odds.

This part is important:

> from a genuine, sophisticated democratic system

Do you think something more powerful than capitalism is impossible?

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#125

Post by advisedwang »

ars wrote: post #8

"Grau wants more wheelchair users to come into the shop, as repairs happen much faster — only two week’s wait, on average. Wheelchair users are loath to adopt this, as coming into the office can be physically treacherous for them" vs. a technician fixing the chair in the house. But how about something in between? A medium-skill employee who takes the chair from their home to the repair facility? They would need to ca…

I'm not a wheelchair user, but I can imagine it being a non-starter to have your wheelchair just taken away from you. What if the tech doesn't bring it back? You're just stranded! Even if they do bring it back, there's potentially a lot of time stranded.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#126

Post by MichaelZuo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #100
MichaelZuo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulations don't just disappear to allow for such imports as in your example ...?

> regulations don't just disappear to allow for such imports as in your example My point is the regulations are leading to the duopoly, which is the source of the problem. The last private-equity owner seems to have been fine. And the market was competitive before the CMS rules in 2005. I’m not suggesting scrapping the rules. But the rules are clearly well past safety.

Perhaps you've confused which comment I was replying to with one further up, from what I can see you were trying to answer the question, and nothing else is visible:

> how would it fix things then if it wasn't private equity dominating that market?

The visible answer is clearly contingent on some future regulatory landscape coming into existence, otherwise it makes no sense, so I was wondering how does it answer the original question?

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#127

Post by randomdata »

wolverine876 wrote: post #79
pdonis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only if a wronged party has the resources (time, money, political capital) to pursue it. In a free market, if there is a market need for more efficient achievement of redress for wronged parties, the market will produce it. > Which is but one reason why it is deeply silly to rely on it to make a society go. But of course relying on governments to achieve redress for wronged parties works just great. Not.

Free markets are not a panacea, nor do ideal free markets ever exist anyway. Also, free markets require regulation to prevent powerful actors from making them non-free. > the market will produce it. Only if it's profitable. Feeding poor people, caring for the indigent, etc. isn't profitable.

> Only if it's profitable.

Are you confusing markets with business?

To profit means that you accepted a debt instead of getting something in return for your efforts. Business seeks profit because the expectation is that it will pass the debt on to the stakeholders who will then call the debt and get something in return for their efforts.

But it is people who participate in the market. If they demand profit continually, therefore not getting anything in return, that just means they're working for free. People won't feed the poor unless they can do it for free? Methinks that's not what you meant.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#128

Post by sangnoir »

wolverine876 wrote: post #98
sangnoir wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do think we should address security around AI The same way we address security around cars: we don't ban individuals from working on project cars, or driving them on public roads - instead, we have standards for OEMs and individuals, and prosecute negligence. AI safely is similar to GM lobbying for laws making it illegal to tweak your own car or changing your own brake fluid for "public safety".

> we don't ban individuals from working on project cars, or driving them on public roads - instead, we have standards for OEMs and individuals, and prosecute negligence I'm not quite sure what you mean, or what in AI safety you see as analogous. For other technology, certainly building and using certain things is illegal - you can't make hand grenades, lots of chemicals; I'm pretty sure you can't own certain instrume…

> I'm not quite sure what you mean

IMO, for the general public, current AI models are much closer to cars than they are to anti-personnel weapons, when plotted on risk/benefit axes. FWIW, vehicle regulations are not an all-or-nothing affair either - there are things that remain verboten.

Those who claim AIs are too dangerous to be in the hands of the public have ulterior motives, and/or are far more optimistic than I am on the speed and ease the chasm between LLM and general intelligence will be bridged - if it at all.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#129

Post by VHRanger »

cogman10 wrote: post #97
minusLik wrote: post #67

What the article does not seem to mention is that an usual electric wheelchair costs about $65,000 (and is intended to be replaced every six years or so). This and the non-availability of replacement parts is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/ Louis Rossmann interviewed the founder of the project here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaAj59…

Really cool that an electric wheelchair costs more than a luxury EV and is somehow less reliable.

Wheelchair users have no bargaining power against wheelchair makers.

Car buyers have leverage.

Normally this exorbitant price would incentivize competition in a healthy market, but the private equity players presumably make that difficult. There might also be barriers to entry in the market.

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