Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–429 of 429 posts

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#421

Post by phmqk76 »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #249
phmqk76 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess what? Joe Consumer lives in a society that has an economy. And that economy thrives on open markets and competition. US antitrust law knew this from Teddy Roosevelt all the way until Ronald Reagan gutted that notion, and began to focus only on consumer harm. But consumers aren’t the only part of an economy! They’re probably not even the most important part. Open competition is vital for a diverse and open econo…

You make no sense. Germany protects domestic manufacturing to keep their engineers and workers employed, admirable. Who exactly is US trying to keep employed? Please tell me something concrete, don’t use Orwellian terminology like Open markets when you mean Govt Regulated markets. Without Apple’s introduction of the smart-phone, millions of app development jobs would not exist. Apple’s 30% tax is reducing profits of…

If my comment didn't make sense to you, read it again, slowly. "Open markets" is not an Orwellian phrase - it's well-understood by anyone with any economic literacy that competition in markets requires those markets to be regulated in order to avoid monopolies and other trusts. Apple introduced a great product in the iPhone, no question about that. And Apple is rewarded through its efforts by enjoying large profit margins on the handsets it sells. This should be obvious. What Apple isn't entitled to is to charge rents for the right to simply exist on its devices. Anyone who understands the power of open systems in the technological revolution over the last thirty years can grasp this easily. It's what gave us the web, and spawned trillions of dollars in economic growth as companies developed for the web and for hundreds of millions of personal computers. It isn't economically productive to have one or two or three gatekeeping companies capture a slice of that revenue just because they can. That 30% revenue that's lost to Apple is paid for directly by the consumer, obviously.

To help unmuddle your thinking, Apple doesn't subsidize the cost of the iPhone with its services revenue. Apple makes blockbuster profits on every phone it sells, and always has. I'm not an app developer, and I'm not even in the technology industry. But I understand economics and antitrust law, and don't wear my ignorance of either as a badge of honor while shitposting replies to people's comments.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#422

Post by phmqk76 »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #236
pompino wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing Apple cares about is Apple making more money. they will gladly gouge the end User so that their executives can line their pockets. there is nobody here you can actually ”trust”.

Such a bad take, please go back to Reddit where you might be congratulated for garden variety “everyone else is greedy and evil, but I can see through them and speak truth to power”. People here have higher standards on their takes. If all Apple cared about is making money, would they have spent upwards of 10 Billion+ on an Apple Car only to cancel it later. At its height, Vision Pro R&D cost 2 billion per quarter, y…

Apple is a corporation that exists to make money for its shareholders. It spent $10 billion to develop an Apple Car because it thought it would make a nice ROI by doing so, but failed. Do you think the money was spent altruistically? LOL

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#423

Post by WWLink »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #390
leptons wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also forbid competition in many ways - forcing Safari browser no matter what browser you install, Chrome is Safari, Firefox is Safari, Opera is Safari. That's far worse than what Microsoft did to get sued by simply bundling IE with Windows. No, Apple forbids any other browser but their browser, and this is done for anti-competitive reasons. That's just one example . It's a lot more than "Android bubbles green".…

Oh go switch to Android. Until very recently, iOS had a minority share of the market and still does worldwide. It’s in no way comparable to Microsoft 25 years ago which then had an overwhelming market position. Were you one of those guys who spelled Microsoft with a ‘$’ btw?

Neither platform is great at everything really, but being able to use ACTUAL firefox on an android phone is pretty sweet. I can use ublock origin, get firefox bookmark syncing which works with EVERY SINGLE device and computer I own! It's awesome. I love it. It also works better with 'request desktop website'.

Likewise, automatic photo syncing with onedrive works better on android than it does on iOS (although this may be a configuration thing).

But when it comes to smartwatches, I do really like my Apple Watch. The problem is, Apple Watches only work with Apple iPhones. And Apple iPhones only work really well with Apple Watches because Apple doesn't allow anyone else to do half the things that Apple iOS can do with Apple Watches. And frankly, none of those things that Apple does as "vertical integration" are special or unique - it's just obnoxious vendor lock-in. They could have made a good smartwatch API and vetted smartwatch vendors the same way they vet apps. But no. We get Apple Watches or a shit experience on 3rd party watches.

The "don't like it? buy something else" attitude is obnoxious as hell. Apple could do better with iOS (and with their Macs). I don't know why some people can't accept that.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#424

Post by Teever »

gretch wrote: post #158
robocat wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Costs me $0.5 to send an image or other MMS locally to Android. Even a txt costs me if the Android is overseas. I have a cheap plan in New Zealand. Blue/green might be irrelevant to you, but it is definitely not irrelevant to many people.

> Costs me $0.5 to send an image or other MMS > Even a txt costs me if the Android is overseas Sounds like your telecom sucks. Why are you demanding something of Apple. Why don’t you get your government to regulate your own telecoms?

You say that as if we can't and shouldn't do both?

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#425

Post by tekknik »

talldayo wrote: post #415
tekknik wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this over green bubbles. Life has gotten so good in the US that all that’s left to focus on is green bubbles. We’ve solved homelessness, wealth gaps, housing crisis, so now it’s time to take down Apple because those green bubbles need to die. I wish this current generation would learn what’s actually important to fight for. Green bubbles are not on the list.

The problem is that Apple, the world's largest tech company, is reluctant to create or join messaging standards. I'm not sure if you're very familiar with the prevalence of texting (or Apple) in the 21st century but it stands to reason that this is a rather important thing to regulate. It certainly was worth regulating when Ma Bell tried monopolizing communication protocols 50 years ago. So tell us; what is worth fig…

No the problem is not Apple refusing to join messaging standards. The problem is you thinking this is a problem worth fighting when there are many many many other more serious problems to address first.

Apples actions are not keeping people from living the one life they have. They are keeping people from having blue bubbles. Blue bubbles are not a necessity in life. Food, jobs, money, housing, these are all required.

Take that same energy and focus it on something that will let more people live instead of a nonissue. You are defocusing actual issues to solve a petty fight and force control. Stop.

If you continue to be blind, and focus nonissues, you are the problem.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#426

Post by talldayo »

tekknik wrote: post #425
talldayo wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Apple, the world's largest tech company, is reluctant to create or join messaging standards. I'm not sure if you're very familiar with the prevalence of texting (or Apple) in the 21st century but it stands to reason that this is a rather important thing to regulate. It certainly was worth regulating when Ma Bell tried monopolizing communication protocols 50 years ago. So tell us; what is worth fig…

No the problem is not Apple refusing to join messaging standards. The problem is you thinking this is a problem worth fighting when there are many many many other more serious problems to address first. Apples actions are not keeping people from living the one life they have. They are keeping people from having blue bubbles. Blue bubbles are not a necessity in life. Food, jobs, money, housing, these are all required.…

> You are defocusing actual issues to solve a petty fight and force control. Stop.

> If you continue to be blind, and focus nonissues, you are the problem.

You are the one that has refused to furnish anything more important.

Also, somewhat obviously, food, jobs, money and housing are not distributed arbitrarily. Blue bubbles are.

It sounds like you're really upset over this whole thing, which is concerning once you consider how likely Apple is to lose their case here. Are you going to still be okay in the event that Apple is legislated for this behavior? Are you going to protest in the street against the DOJ for ignoring the real problems, like PB&J distribution at the local middle school?

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#427

Post by tekknik »

talldayo wrote: post #426
tekknik wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the problem is not Apple refusing to join messaging standards. The problem is you thinking this is a problem worth fighting when there are many many many other more serious problems to address first. Apples actions are not keeping people from living the one life they have. They are keeping people from having blue bubbles. Blue bubbles are not a necessity in life. Food, jobs, money, housing, these are all required.…

> You are defocusing actual issues to solve a petty fight and force control. Stop. > If you continue to be blind, and focus nonissues, you are the problem. You are the one that has refused to furnish anything more important. Also, somewhat obviously, food, jobs, money and housing are not distributed arbitrarily. Blue bubbles are. It sounds like you're really upset over this whole thing, which is concerning once you c…

> You are the one that has refused to furnish anything more important.

I have said many times what is required for life and therefore what is important. You even acknowledged it in your next sentence.

> Also, somewhat obviously, food, jobs, money and housing are not distributed arbitrarily. Blue bubbles are.

Wrong. We are not communist. Food is purchased and people with more money purchase better quality food. Apple iPhones in fact are just as cheap as Android phones. It’s a users choice to choose one or the other.

> It sounds like you're really upset over this whole thing

Yes, because I’m a veteran that has been to war for this country and this is what your generation focuses on? Do you feel like you’re wasting peoples lives at all? Do you feel like you’re wasting the gift given to you by everybody that has died for you? Because you are.

> Are you going to protest in the street

Protesting is a waste of time. You know what works? Having politicians on speed dial and calling them daily. So no I will not be protesting anything much less this. What I will do instead is focus on making housing cheaper and fixing wages not keeping up with inflation.

Again, stop defocusing the work of many thousands of people. Use your energy on solving anything required for life. Or have people like me fight your efforts and force refocusing on actual issues.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#428

Post by inkyoto »

talldayo wrote: post #417
inkyoto wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HN tells me that there's only one more step left after embracing and extending. It is a wild projection, a common one amongst members of this esteemed congregation. Removing SMS supports invalidates and revokes the 3G/4G/5G network compliance with standards and certification, whether you are Apple or an invisible fifth column. It also voids the right to display the very same 3G/4G/5G sign in the upper part of the s…

You don't have to remove support to extinguish a protocol; just sufficiently degrade it to the point that it's unusable. With that in mind (and how outrageously useless SMS is in 2024), I think you can absolutely accuse Apple's reluctance to standardize as extinguishing. Unless they correct course, iMessage's greatest contribution to text-messaging will be making it a proprietary affair. That would be the lamest way…

I am not following the train of thought. All I am reading is yet another wild projection.

SMS is the lowest common denominator across all mobile networks and is the ultimate fallback option for a smartphone if more modern messaging standards or extensions (RCS, iMessage or whatever) are not supported. Degrading SMS means losing 3/4/5G certification and losing the telecommunication authority certification in every single country around the world, consequently instantly losing sales. No sane company that is in the business of selling phones would dare to lose the certification on a global scale. SMS messaging has worked like a charm on iPhones, and I am not sure what the insinuation is all about.

GSMA, the governing body of 3/4/5/6G, has neither adopted nor endorsed RCS up to date, and it is supported at the core network layer only by a fraction of mobile operators across the world. SMS, being a 21st century rotary dial phone equivalent, is supported by every mobile network today however outdated it is. RCS is not.

The original spat over RCS, however, concerned a few sticking points:

  1. Google becoming a gatekeeper and holding messages until they could be delivered to the recipient;
  2. RCS not being end-to-end encrypted;
  2½.Google providing a proprietory encryption protocol with no open source implementation and – *at first* – encryption only being available to P2P conversations (aka FaceBook Messenger style secret chats but not to group chats[0]);
  3. Owing to (1), Google gaining the ability to track users via the use of metadata;
  4. Only a limited number of Android handsets supporting RCS in the beginning.
I have no stake in the game, but, if I were Apple, I would have not agreed to RCS, either, considering the constraints.

As of May 2024, RCS is still not part of the GSMA portfolio of standards. From the mobile network perspective, it does not exist.

[0] Added later.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#429

Post by pertymcpert »

ambichook wrote: post #402
pertymcpert wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lmao some strong feelings there. Lightning is a brilliant port.

lightning was brilliant when it was introduced, but now its just USB-C but nonstandard

The commenter was attacking Apple for introducing lightning when USB-C wasn't invented yet.
Post reply on HN