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Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

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Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#81

Post by zubairshaik »

bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

Once you have a corpus of your own personal text, I'd recommend to use the current best analyzer, oxeylyzer[0]. You can find more details on the Alternate Keyboard Layout discord.

[0] https://github.com/O-X-E-Y/oxeylyzer

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#82

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

jryb wrote: post #29
bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

You don't need a keylogger. Just take some things you've written and count the characters. It won't be exact since it excludes rewrites but the distribution should be very close.

I'd like to also include keyboard shortcuts and commands that don't end up in recorded text.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#83

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

> I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from.

> Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes?

I did this once with a terrible script that just recorded keys with... I forget, probably either xev or `xinput test`. Anyways, yes, huge potential security/privacy risk but IMO it's fine if you keep it local and don't persist to disk without encryption (read: put the file on an encrypted filesystem or tmpfs). I specifically didn't want just the per-key total presses because I was interested in use of shortcuts and common substrings (IIRC I was looking at what to make macros of to save typing); if you just care about what actual keys get pressed the most and are only looking at rearranging the same keys then aggregation might make it safer.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#84

Post by zubairshaik »

knallfrosch wrote: post #77

I bought a Glove80 which has everything: split, ortholinear, concave, mechanical, wireless, backlight, open firmware.. But find myself switching back to a default keyboard nevertheless. Instead of trying to reach everything with my fingers and reaching for those faraway keys, I just move my arm – that's far superior. Also I can switch which hands hit the middle keys like G and H. Plus I can type some stuff one-handed…

I think if you are switching over for speed gains or just for fun, sure it may be inconvenient and not worth the effort. However, many people switch to ergonomic split keyboards because they have to due to RSI or tenosynovitis (as was my case) or at great risk of such.

For those people, I highly recommend you to go ahead and buy a Glove80, you will actually be able to type again without pain. It's a learning curve, but gaining back control of your own hands is so, so worth it. You also need to be patient, it took me about a month and a half before the pain was entirely gone. I also continue to do my daily hand, wrist and arm exercises which help greatly as well.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#85

Post by bluGill »

erksa wrote: post #36
bluGill wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that - the same problem layouts like Dvorak have but worse - is that I sometimes have to use other computers. Any custom layout will be great for me - once I put forth the effort to learn it of course, but since it will only be for me nobody else can use my computer (This computer I'm using now I don't care as only I touch it). However I have computers that others in my family also use, computers at…

It's my own experience, and it anecdotally seemed to be shared with other people who have modified their main keyboard: The regular qwerty/qwertz keyboards are so ingrained in our muscle memory and society (think touchscreen keyboards) that they still work as backups and you do not "forget" how to efficiently use regular keyboards. I guess it does depend on how often you're swapping around.

I started with Dvorak young - about the same time I was learning "proper" typing (as opposed to hunt and peck). I wasn't good enough at QWERTY to go back and so I eventually had to give up. Besides, all the studies of typing I've seen are not compelling - most don't try to control for that fact the alternative layout users are likely to study typing and thus be better than average.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#86

Post by thetacitman »

Symmetry wrote: post #6

Interesting, but I think if I were to re-learn touch typing I'd go all the way and move to a chording keyboard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard

Its not bad, and I would recommend it once someone starts going crazy with the layers. Instead of having layers, you have dictionaries that have sets of chords that all follow a similar pattern. For example, this is my symbol "layer": https://steno.sammdot.ca/emily-symbols.png Typing on a real keyboard is too much work, and I try to avoid it if at all possible. Few people seem to know this, but you can also chord single letters, it is just slower than chording a full word or phrase. I have dictionaries for cursor movement, almost any shortcut combination, html tags, cli programs, diacritics, etc. I don't know why it is not more popular.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#87

Post by AlexErrant »

benji-york wrote: post #44

Something I don't see in keyboard layouts often is mouse buttons. I use a trackball between my keyboard halves and prefer using mouse buttons on my left hand while moving the trackball with the right. https://imgur.com/Eac4PVL

I have a Charybdis https://bastardkb.com/charybdis/

Highly recommend. I daily drive vim and still scroll around in there with the trackball haha.

My trackball's also on the right, and also use mouse buttons on the left, but of course everything's customizable.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#88

Post by ElCapitanMarkla »

I built a Corne a year ago and while I love it for most things I still find I stumble around looking for brackets and special characters at times. And I find I use the numbers often enough that I'd like to try with a board with a dedicated row.

I have a new case to print which adds a number row and four keys down the bottom right so I can add dedicated arrow keys. I quite often want to hit some of those keys with a single hand but I may need the modifier from one half and a key on the other.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#89

Post by yoyohello13 »

smeej wrote: post #64
weinzierl wrote: post #37

The layout in the article is on a split ortho keyboard and I think this is the best arrangement for a modern keyboard. What I think is not so obvious is, that the staggering makes traditional non-split keyboards bearable, because it allows to touch type with both hands at a slight angle. At least this is true when using the European fingering. In the US version the number row is awkward to type with angled hands.

I tried switching to an ortholinear keyboard and found it ergonomically unbearable, even after tweaking the layout. My fingers DO NOT move in straight lines when I extend them! They are significantly farther apart when extended than they are contracted. I was appalled when I found out most people who think ortholinear keyboards are an improvement have been typing Z with their little fingers instead of their ring fing…

Yeah, I'm not sold that ortholinear is better. I switch between ortho and traditional often and honestly don't notice much of a difference in ergonomics. Really the biggest comfort thing for me is the split. Being able to open up my chest feels really good.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#90

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

I use a homemade non-split "ortholinear" variant. You can make all sorts of changes in the name of optimization, but the truth is most optimizations have very little chance of catching on because they are opaque and confusing to normal people.

I have some of my own principles for making a keyboard that embraces change while still being usable to someone passing by. Yes they might hate it, but at least they could use it in a pinch.

1. Label your keys. Yes it's nice to have your layout memorized, but they have labels for a reason. That reason being that not everyone who approaches a keyboard has the layout memorized. And this is especially important for mission-critical keypresses. (And guess what's difficult to label? A chord.)

2. Don't replace mission-critical keys with a chord. Function keys (like F5) can do bad things when pressed accidentally. Requiring a chord for such a key is asking for accidental presses.

3. Try to keep your keys generally where they are with a standard keyboard. I bend my slanted columns into vertical ones, but for the most part the keys can be found near where you'd normally find them.

I also question whether some of the optimizations claimed by people are truly optimizations. Were you really getting carpal tunnel by occasionally holding the Ctrl key with your pinky? Probably not. Most of the strain I observe comes from simple overuse. The only times I've ever felt fatigue were when doing typing tests repeatedly.

I'm not trying to "yuck" anyone's "yum"; I just think we should be honest and admit that most of the keyboard changes we make are more about having fun, and less about practicality. I use some chords and I have fun in doing so. But I also know that all of that nonsense will be completely rejected by most people sitting down to actually use my keyboard, unless they happen to be slightly adventurous like myself.

I like to imagine keyboards that could perhaps (however fantastical) eventually catch on with the general public, given enough time and attrition. Those are the kinds of keyboards I build and use.

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