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Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

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Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#31

Post by Adverblessly »

Here are my personal principals:

1. Don't use too many thumb buttons, especially at odd angles, they just make my thumbs hurt after too much typing.

2. Don't use layers for any frequently used buttons, having to keep a button held for a while frequently just leads to more pain.

3. Function keys are mandatory. They aren't used frequently enough that having them in a "far" location is a problem, but when I do use them it is great that they exist (and don't require some strange layer combination press).

4. Home/End/PgUp/PgDown/Delete are all mandatory and should be somewhere near the (also mandatory) cursor keys and a shift key. Not sure how people survive programming without these buttons ;)

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#32

Post by bloopernova »

Adverblessly wrote: post #31

Here are my personal principals: 1. Don't use too many thumb buttons, especially at odd angles, they just make my thumbs hurt after too much typing. 2. Don't use layers for any frequently used buttons, having to keep a button held for a while frequently just leads to more pain. 3. Function keys are mandatory. They aren't used frequently enough that having them in a "far" location is a problem, but when I do use them…

Your points sound like my daily driver keyboard might work: https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q10-alice-layout-...

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#33

Post by lawn »

konfusinomicon wrote: post #10

moonlander is best lander. if you type for a living, buy one and never look back.

Hard disagree.

The thumb layout is designed for very large hands and way too many keys in difficult to reach positions.

Fact is, there's no one keyboard that's ideal for everyone.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#34

Post by MSFT_Edging »

francis-io wrote: post #26
bluGill wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that - the same problem layouts like Dvorak have but worse - is that I sometimes have to use other computers. Any custom layout will be great for me - once I put forth the effort to learn it of course, but since it will only be for me nobody else can use my computer (This computer I'm using now I don't care as only I touch it). However I have computers that others in my family also use, computers at…

Wouldn't a small script that lets you toggle between a QWERTY layout and a custom layout solve this problem?

Only if it's someone using your machine, rather than you using another's machine and re-adjusting to querty.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#35

Post by erksa »

bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

ZSA, the company behind the moonlander now has a heatmap extension [1]. After running it you get an idea of where your heavy keys are.

When creating my own (slightly) modified qwerty layout I found it helpful to identify which areas of the keyboard was overloaded.

https://blog.zsa.io/2012-introducing-heatmaps/

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#36

Post by erksa »

bluGill wrote: post #23
bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

The problem with that - the same problem layouts like Dvorak have but worse - is that I sometimes have to use other computers. Any custom layout will be great for me - once I put forth the effort to learn it of course, but since it will only be for me nobody else can use my computer (This computer I'm using now I don't care as only I touch it). However I have computers that others in my family also use, computers at…

It's my own experience, and it anecdotally seemed to be shared with other people who have modified their main keyboard:

The regular qwerty/qwertz keyboards are so ingrained in our muscle memory and society (think touchscreen keyboards) that they still work as backups and you do not "forget" how to efficiently use regular keyboards. I guess it does depend on how often you're swapping around.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#37

Post by weinzierl »

The layout in the article is on a split ortho keyboard and I think this is the best arrangement for a modern keyboard.

What I think is not so obvious is, that the staggering makes traditional non-split keyboards bearable, because it allows to touch type with both hands at a slight angle.

At least this is true when using the European fingering. In the US version the number row is awkward to type with angled hands.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#38

Post by lawn »

I'll advice against keycap labels and printing a cheat sheet.

Relying on them will feel better, but it's a crutch and you'll learn faster if you force yourself to do it the hard way of remembering.

And before you mention it, the layout I use is quite complicated, and I still think it's much better to learn without any aid:

https://www.jonashietala.se/blog/2022/09/06/the_current_t-34...

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#39

Post by lawn »

bradley13 wrote: post #8

I spent a lot of time on this, back in my bored 20's. A super-optimized keyboard layout, which I used for a year. I measured my typing speed on qwerty before the change, and on the optimized keyboard after using it for a year. Yep, you do type faster. In my case, it was 10%. Honestly, it wasn't worth it. There are way too many disadvantages, not least of which is the fact that that only your computer has your weird k…

> There are way too many disadvantages, not least of which is the fact that that only your computer has your weird keyboard.

Meh. I can type fine on both my weird layout and on a regular one (either Swedish or English layout).

Your point about speed I agree with, but I'll say that the point of an alternative layout shouldn't be speed, it's about comfort.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#40

Post by __mharrison__ »

lawn wrote: post #38

I'll advice against keycap labels and printing a cheat sheet. Relying on them will feel better, but it's a crutch and you'll learn faster if you force yourself to do it the hard way of remembering. And before you mention it, the layout I use is quite complicated, and I still think it's much better to learn without any aid: https://www.jonashietala.se/blog/2022/09/06/the_current_t-34...

I would definitely advise creating a cheat sheet. But probably not want for the reasons you are thinking.

Custom/mechanical keyboards are a rabbit hole and you might end up with a few of them, each configured slightly differently. You might want to know how to come back to them (especially if they have blank keycaps or extensive layers).

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