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Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

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Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#101

Post by trueismywork »

dventimi wrote: post #87
trueismywork wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't state anything to the contrary. I just said it depends on the hardware and is not a problem of linux. Your choice is limited with linux but if buy hardware that's good for Linux, then everything works quite well.

In a bit of sleight of hand you just substituted "good hardware for Linux" where earlier you had the unqualified "good hardware."

It can be the same thing. :-P

I'm being facetious here, but I did edit it and I'm sorry for not making the edit obvious.

Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#102

Post by ivanjermakov »

atvcatole wrote: post #97
ivanjermakov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! Is there a breakdown of how this space is used? Arch ISO is 950MB...

Wow! Ubuntu netinstall is ~80MB...

You're right! If you count essential pacstrap packages it's additional ~200MB.

Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#103

Post by dventimi »

trueismywork wrote: post #101
dventimi wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a bit of sleight of hand you just substituted "good hardware for Linux" where earlier you had the unqualified "good hardware."

It can be the same thing. :-P I'm being facetious here, but I did edit it and I'm sorry for not making the edit obvious.

It's ok, but what I'm reacting to is any implication that it's simply a matter of the hardware being "bad" and a figurative shrugging of the shoulders with the further implication that the fault, if there is one, lies squarely with the hardware manufacturers for making "bad" hardware and the users for choosing "bad" hardware. Let's set aside value judgments and the assignment of blame and agree that if Linux had better hardware support, probably more people would use it, shall we?

Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#104

Post by dventimi »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #92
dventimi wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put another way, add "poor hardware support" to the list of reasons not to use Linux.

Poor support for new hardware, yes. Every OS is a series of tradeoffs (Linux lags in new hardware and commercial software, Darwin supports less hardware than any other major OS, NT views the user as the product); you have to decide if the advantages or disadvantages matter more.

Obviously, it's a matter of trade-offs. However, these trade-offs aren't written in stone. If Linux lags in hardware, new or old, that is in part itself a trade-off made by its developers, and if those developers want more people to use Linux, perhaps a change in their priorities would make that more likely. Devote less time to polishing new graphical installers so that Bluetooth is rock solid on more hardware, and maybe more people will use Linux. Or, maybe they won't. That's for the market to decide. But, clearly there are market participants (some of them in this thread) who wish hardware support had a higher priority than it does. Make of that what you will.

Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#105

Post by dventimi »

trueismywork wrote: post #100
dventimi wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put another way, add "poor hardware support" to the list of reasons not to use Linux.

Or put another way and say, put poor linux support as a reason to not use certain hardware.

Sure, unless you've already purchased the hardware, or had it purchased for you outside of your control.

All I'm saying is, if the the Linux developers made a better product, probably more people would use it. That is entirely independent of the fact that you can say the same thing about the hardware manufacturers.

Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#106

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

dventimi wrote: post #104
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor support for new hardware, yes. Every OS is a series of tradeoffs (Linux lags in new hardware and commercial software, Darwin supports less hardware than any other major OS, NT views the user as the product); you have to decide if the advantages or disadvantages matter more.

Obviously, it's a matter of trade-offs. However, these trade-offs aren't written in stone. If Linux lags in hardware, new or old, that is in part itself a trade-off made by its developers, and if those developers want more people to use Linux, perhaps a change in their priorities would make that more likely. Devote less time to polishing new graphical installers so that Bluetooth is rock solid on more hardware, and m…

> Devote less time to polishing new graphical installers so that Bluetooth is rock solid on more hardware, and maybe more people will use Linux.

I can't imagine that there is any meaningful overlap between people capable of polishing install wizards (UX-centric userspace applications) and dealing with BT (kernel code and plumbing daemons), so it's not really a trade.

> But, clearly there are market participants (some of them in this thread) who wish hardware support had a higher priority than it does. Make of that what you will.

Are those market participants willing to pay for that work, in cash or code? TANSTAAFL.

Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#107

Post by trueismywork »

dventimi wrote: post #103
trueismywork wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be the same thing. :-P I'm being facetious here, but I did edit it and I'm sorry for not making the edit obvious.

It's ok, but what I'm reacting to is any implication that it's simply a matter of the hardware being "bad" and a figurative shrugging of the shoulders with the further implication that the fault, if there is one, lies squarely with the hardware manufacturers for making "bad" hardware and the users for choosing "bad" hardware. Let's set aside value judgments and the assignment of blame and agree that if Linux had bett…

Yes

Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#108

Post by dventimi »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #106
dventimi wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, it's a matter of trade-offs. However, these trade-offs aren't written in stone. If Linux lags in hardware, new or old, that is in part itself a trade-off made by its developers, and if those developers want more people to use Linux, perhaps a change in their priorities would make that more likely. Devote less time to polishing new graphical installers so that Bluetooth is rock solid on more hardware, and m…

> Devote less time to polishing new graphical installers so that Bluetooth is rock solid on more hardware, and maybe more people will use Linux. I can't imagine that there is any meaningful overlap between people capable of polishing install wizards (UX-centric userspace applications) and dealing with BT (kernel code and plumbing daemons), so it's not really a trade. > But, clearly there are market participants (some…

> Are those market participants willing to pay for that work, in cash or code? TANSTAAFL.

Is Ubuntu demanding they pay for that work in cash or code? Obviously not, since Ubuntu generally offers it for free. You think they do that out of the goodness of their hearts? I don't. I think they benefit from people using their software even for free, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Whatever that benefit is, they'll get less of it if people reject their software because Bluetooth sucks (for example). Suppose that gives them incentive to do something about it. Then what's the problem? Sounds like an efficient market interaction to me.

> I can't imagine that there is any meaningful overlap between people capable of polishing install wizards (UX-centric userspace applications) and dealing with BT (kernel code and plumbing daemons), so it's not really a trade.

Ubuntu pays developers. The more they pay one kind of developer the less they're able to pay other kinds of developers. So yeah. That really is a trade-off for Ubuntu.

Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#109

Post by fragmede »

zaikunzhang wrote: post #47
queuebert wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried Ubuntu Kylin [1]? If so, what did you not like about it? 1. https://www.ubuntukylin.com/

Not really. But I have introduced (enforced ...) deepin [1] to my wife, who is definitely not a "computer person". She essentially uses only WPS, WeChat, and Chrome. She did complain a few times in the beginning, requesting me to "get her Windows back", but I resisted and the complaints somehow stopped after the first month. This may be a sign that the system is not toooo difficult to use, and that I am an extremely…

What is WPS?

Re: Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat

#110

Post by hnarn »

zaikunzhang wrote: post #53
axytol wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow alternative Ubuntu user, one additional difference is the LTS support schedule which is shorter for Ubuntu alternatives. For example, Xubuntu 24.04 is supported until 2027, while Ubuntu 24.04 is supported until 2029. Interestingly, as I understood it, when a release such as Xubuntu goes out of support it does not stop getting updates that are not specific to that respective flavor, so in a way you still h…

Good point. My strategy is to buy a new laptop (Thinkpad X1 Carbon) every one or two years and install the latest LTS of Xubuntu, so that a 3-year support is long enough for me. Over the years, I have developed my notes and scripts to configure quickly a newly installed Xubuntu system on a new computer, so that everything works in the same way as on my old computer. Since I stick with the same brand of laptop (Thinkp…

If you’re ever feeling adventurous, I would suggest trying out Debian with XFCE instead of Xubuntu. I recently migrated and even though the installation isn’t as pretty, I find both the installation and the distribution itself to be much more stable and lightweight without sacrificing any important functionality.
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