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FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

nytimes.com

501–510 of 598 posts

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a United States immigrant, I had never heard of the fairness doctrine before. My first thought is: how would it be compatible with the freedom of the press granted by the First Amendment?

There's a ton of precedence for fraud protection law blocking perverse applications of the first amendment. The right to free speech is not a right to commit fraud or slander against another. If it were, society would fall into catastrophic disarray. I can say what I want, but if I lie to you or try to trick or swindle you there are allowed to be consequences. It should be obvious here that even the most succinctly a…

> For example, the right to free speech is not a right to commit fraud or slander against another. If it were, society would fall into catastrophic disarray.

Fraud and slander are not illegal purely on the basis of content of the speech used to conduct the activities. A sufficiently culpable and provable malicious intent must also exist. It's not fraud or slander to state an opinion one sincerely believes in, and obtain money or credibility for it.

> So the fairness doctrine can be seen as compatible with the first amendment in exactly the same way that consumer protection laws against false advertising are compatible with the first amendment in a world where it is observably the case that a media institution selectively using its platform to direct the public mindset is itself a form of intentional public harm for selfish interests.

I don't think you understand what the fairness doctrine was in practice or why it existed. It's regulation of private conduct. It didn't begin with television, but rather radio at the end of WW2 in an attempt to prevent future Father Caughlins from having access to a private audience over the airwaves. GE and RCA were not their targets. If anything, the fairness doctrine stifled competitive and independent media over the airwaves, with most such individuals and organizations functionally limited to local broadcast where they could get away with it and newsletters.

The doctrine never applied to Voice of America or "friendly" news organizations and the FCC wasn't compelled to apply it equally across the political spectrum (so much for equal liberty under the law!). If one wanted to provide supportive commentary on the Kennedy's invasion of Vietnam without a competing voice denouncing it, one was free to do so without fear of a costly suit or a revoked broadcasting license. Just like most regulations, the fairness doctrine was little more than a selectively used cudgel for political purposes. Even the Wikipedia page for the topic cites members of previous administrations making admitting to it.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#502
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd genuinely like to understand why you think corporations, whose success is measured by profit and basically nothing else, are more likely to do things that are good for people than governments, whose success is measured at least a little bit by the wellbeing of their constituents. I really want to better understand the thinking of people who hold opinions like yours.

It’s easier for me to switch which business I give my money to than it is for me to move or change governments. Most of the services I use are provided by private industry and I have choices. Everything from food, clothing, shelter. All private corporations I choose to buy from. I guess I can go get my food from a government soup kitchen or apply for government housing but my experience is these services are not comp…

> I guess I can go get my food from a government soup kitchen or apply for government housing but my experience is these services are not competitive with private market even at the lower price (or free)

Because you have such limited experience with the world. Did you know there are countries out there — dozens of them even! — which are not American?

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/17/realestate/paris-france-h...

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#503
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> free basic internet like Wikipedia and news at a lower cost. I can't comprehend why you think ISPs would feel compelled to be so altruistic without any government intervention. Except, since when was free wi-fi an impossible thing to find? Ever been to a coffee shop? Even in the "free shitty half-internet for everyone" pipe dream, the costs of such a service don't just magically disappear. Either way, someone's pay…

> I can't comprehend why you think ISPs would feel compelled to be so altruistic without any government intervention. Price discrimination. No altruism necessary. Kind of like my isp offering me different speeds. Meta tried to offer free limited internet to poor rural Indians but idealistic tech workers from wealthy neighborhoods opposed it on moral grounds since it was against net neutrality so then they got no inte…

So Facebook would have provided access where Facebook-owned properties were zero-rated, leading to Facebook distorting those people's view of the world.

If you want to see what happens to countries where Facebook is essentially "the internet", look no further than Myanmar.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55929654

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just that".... the newer legislation was made illegal by Republicans, and Republicans decided the 1864 law is still valid. This is how you roll back the country 160 years. And it's not just that this particular law is literally from 1864, it's that even new laws are mirroring these 160 year old laws. Many have no exception for rape, incest, or the life of the mother [1]. That's barbaric. The reason that Democrats fi…

its very obvious that you are grossly misrepresenting things. If you have an old law that for whatever reason was there, and a newer one is removed, this is how it works. And to suggest that the republicans decided to roll back to 1864 is simply dishonest and intentional misrepresentation. This is the exact sort of thing that makes compromises less likely to happen. One side will GROSSLY misrepresent what the other s…

lol so many words to say you’re not American and understand us.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#506
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kindly read or listen to any long-form work by Sarah Kendzior. But I don't know if the statement you quoted is correct either. Trump isn't the politician who has people tracking their stock trades because they so consistently outperform the market (that would be legislators, including Democrats, who trade on insider information, but face no consequences because the arbiters of such judgment are... themselves). Unfort…

> Kindly read or listen to any long-form work by Sarah Kendzior. This is the first I've heard of her. So, just did a Google search on her: She has written a lot of stories for the "news" on a lot of subjects. Maybe ~10% of the stories are about Trump. There were some lists of story titles with URLs, but the URLs didn't point to the stories -- apparently were old and now broken . Her stories on Trump I could find didn…

If you'd actually read her long-form work (specifically, her books Hiding In Plain Sight and They Knew)... Humor her for the length of those, then see how you feel.

Her thesis is that "Russiagate" wasn't cooked up; that Trump is, in fact, simply an agent of a class of wealthy oligarchs who don't have loyalty to anything but their own money; that people are drawn to him because their correct instincts about the dysfunction in DC are being misdirected to him as a savior, in a way that is identical to the way autocratic, kleptomanic strongmem have been put into power in the past in other countries.

Give her work a chance. If you come out of it still supporting Trump, then I suppose you've made the right decision. But see why she's come to her conclusions first; I personally think that they're compelling. Otherwise, it's kind of weird to disagree with an argument you don't even understand.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A NY jury found Trump guilty of WHAT with his fingers? Rape. I linked to the court's opinion stating this. What the judge makes clear is that "rape" as a matter of law in NY is with a penis only. That Trump raped was with his fingers does not make his rape any less rape. The jury’s unanimous verdict in Carroll II was almost entirely in favor of Ms. Carroll. The only point on which Ms. Carroll did not prevail was wh…

This rape stuff makes no sense: Before seeing your quote, I saw it myself when I looked at the PDF, and it sounds like Trump was convicted of finger rape. But then there is the statement I referenced: "Despite Carroll’s claims that Trump had raped her, they noted, the jury stopped short of saying he committed that particular offense. Instead, jurors opted for a second option: sexual abuse." So, sounds like the jury d…

So much cope. It doesn’t matter what you believe. You didn’t hear the evidence. You didn’t sit through the trial. You have no idea what you are talking about to the point you can’t interpret the NY law, the jury instruction, the verdict, and the judge’s ruling.

Sorry but it’s your critical thinking that’s impaired here.

This is a nation of laws, and under the law, Trump is a rapist. If you refuse to admit finger rape is rape, which it is, then you at least have to admit that Trump was found guilty under NY law of sexual abuse. Are you saying sexual abuse is not seriously wrong?

If you think you have good judgement for supporting a convicted sexual abuser, well, good luck to you dying on that hill.

Have a nice life.

PS: you seem like the kind of person who needs to have the last word so I’ll let you have it. But you should answer this: so you don’t trust the judicial system, and you don’t trust democrats. Fine. But why then is his former VP not endorsing him? He’s not a leftist liberal out to get Trump. He’s ride or die Trump. And yet he’s not endorsing, and had this to say:

  I believe anyone that puts themselves over the Constitution should never be president of the United States and anyone who asks someone else to put them over the Constitution should never be president of the United States again
This is what Pence said about Trump. Why is he saying that? What does he mean when he says that he feels Trump put himself ahead of the constitution and asked others to violate it?

Is your opinion of Trump as well informed as his?

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual claim in right libertarian circles is that monopolies only arise because they can bribe the government into passing laws that enable them to exist.

Or everyone is happy with the monopoly.

Or the flip side, local ISPs that a government can't block.

Monopoly ISP in your region the Government can't stop? Fine, start your own, The monopoly can't stop it either by lobbying.

Re: FCC votes to restore net neutrality rules

#509
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> glad my Nebula won't be slower than my YouTubes To be fair, wouldn't this still be the case? Google peer with many ISPs, and have a lot of server / networking prowess, so the YouTube experience is normally pretty good across the board. Nebula, on the other hand, is a fairly new player from my understanding.

Yes, YouTube might have better CDN solutions, but ISPs can't unfairly discriminate against Nebula. Nebula is a new player, but presumably they're using CDNs with good reach. The point isn't that Google can't build a better CDN. The point is that we don't want ISPs creating a situation where they've inked a deal with Google to prevent good performance from YouTube competitors. We don't want a situation where "YouTube…

> The point isn't that Google can't build a better CDN. The point is that we don't want ISPs creating a situation where they've inked a deal with Google to prevent good performance from YouTube competitors. We don't want a situation where "YouTube is the exclusive 4K video provider on ISP-X."

Definitely not, and I would never advocate for that -- I was perhaps being slightly pedantic in the above comment :-)

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