Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They grew up on the koolaid (no offense, so did I) you grew up thinking you were drinking koolaid, but you weren't, it was indeed fine wine. > of how awesome Linux and BSD are it's hard to think of two things more awesome than those two things. There's no koolaid, they are monumental achievements and are amazing. > the GNU principles that closed source software is unethical Stallman is/was a socialist, so yes, he h…
This seems to be tone deaf fluffy theory in the face of "well, I can't afford to eat but at least some guy online says it's fine wine" Printer driver is a nice motivating story but in practice its a lotta work for no benefit
I'm giving up on open source
111–120 of 209 posts
Re: I'm giving up on open source
#112I still see that today. From the volunteers who coordinate 4th of July celebrations to the 4-H mentors to that guy who hauls his own equipment over every month to mow the vacant lot next to the town park, just because somebody needs to do it or it won't get done. Most of these people have day jobs. The folks who rescued people from freeway car crashes back in the day and the ones who still do it today have day jobs. Some are professional paramedics on the clock in the big city who do it for free out in the little village where they live on their days off.
I know the world of open source software is bigger than that. But I still see the world through the lens I acquired in childhood.
Re: I'm giving up on open source
#113Look, we (aka OSS maintainers) are all struggling to find ways to get paid to make it sustainable—unless we're lucky enough to work at a company that literally just hired us to work on OSS. I totally get some legit gripes about how it's hard to get enough sponsors, or client projects which let you use the projects and then improve them, or whatever.
But just throwing up your hands and saying it's all over seems pretty short-sighted. How many OSS projects has this person used without supporting them? I've probably gotten umpteen amounts of value out of many projects I've never supported…not because I'm a bad person but because that's just how this works.
Re: I'm giving up on open source
#114I maintain an OSS that is 10x smaller than the author of the post and I have experienced the same absurd community behavior. I feel bad for the state of open source [0] - even when Microsoft literally a couple of weeks ago pulled the "FIX THIS NOW" card on ffmpeg https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/10341#comment:4 [0] https://blog.tidelift.com/maintainer-burnout-is-real
We need a FUCK OFF OSS license: like the do-whatever-tf-you-want but with extra clauses telling people to FO. if they want bugfixes, improvements or features. All the free software I had put out there is kind of like that. I don't care about the fame, glory or user count. I release something I built to scratch an itch just because someone else might find it useful. If you didn't like my code, tough luck, go write you…
Though I don't think that's what most projects want. You still want feedback usually. You just want to skip the entitled users.
Re: I'm giving up on open source
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the simple truth of it is that the value of software just doesn't translate to a lot of people's day to day. People will spend tons of money more than willingly for access to streaming libraries full of inane, samey bullshit. People will spend $70 to access the latest AAA game, people will spend thousands on well-tuned PC's, people will spend tens of thousands on cars, hundreds of thousands on homes, with var…
A downvoted but an interesting comment. Years ago I shared this same opinion. When I first learned about Stallman's take on how software should be free, I thought the guy was insane. But with time, it's now obvious he was right about a lot of things. Very few things in the history of humanity made as much impact as OSS and all the things it has inspired and enabled: Linux, gcc, Postges, and so on. Think about how man…
Re: I'm giving up on open source
#116I will never understand how entitled or mean people can be towards OSS devs. I sympathize with this post a great deal and wish the author all the best in whatever he does next.
It's mostly naivety. There are a lot of people who really don't understand that people are doing something without getting paid, as a side gig, just to be helpful. They just don't get it. An uncle, who is a totally decent human being otherwise would complain loudly and bitterly at folks who ran kids sporting events when things didn't run smoothly. At the time I didn't think much of it, until I was an adult and saw th…
I think calling that naïvety brings inaccurately benign connotations. It is possible to be naïve while thinking the best of people, and understanding in good faith that everybody is probably trying. Naivety alone doesn't make somebody's default cynical and bitter.
> This uncle was just a very naive person, it's like he thought these people's entire existence was to run kids sporting events.
If you literally cannot even conceive of other people existing in any way that doesn't directly serve your own desires, I think that's less naivety, and more arrogance and entitlement.
Re: I'm giving up on open source
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
You know, I often wonder if I'll ever receive an encouraging or somewhat kind response on this forum. That's probably a lot to ask from the internet in general. But could you elaborate on what reason you mean? You mean learning how the software works, or just because it's free?
You said the reason you're using open source isn't because you don't want to pay for software. He's saying the reason corporations use open source IS that they don't want to pay for software, as OP said.
Re: I'm giving up on open source
#118I will never understand how entitled or mean people can be towards OSS devs. I sympathize with this post a great deal and wish the author all the best in whatever he does next.
It goes a bit beyond OSS; try doing anything important in life and you'll be a target sooner or later. Jealousy is a powerful force; ignorant mobs are powerful forces and there are a lot of evil opportunists in the mix. People really need to get a little more cynical at a young age. Everyone should be doing things because they think it is in their personal best interests. People can still be altruists, but it is impo…
I don't think people should get any more cynical. That's why we have this problem. The solution isn't to become more like them.
But it is absolutely vital to understand that there are those types of cynical individuals out there. That's fine. Block them out as appropriate; You don't owe them anything, and they wouldn't reciprocate anyway. Keep an eye on them and take steps to protect yourself when they start to get too opportunistic/actively sabotaging/slanderous etc.
Re: I'm giving up on open source
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn’t have to be a reality. But people let it be. It’s only a reality because that kind of behavior is widely tolerated enough, or at least not met with harsh enough pushback, that it continues to drive away good contributors and cause burnout.
Exactly... This is so true, and it's sort of reflective of the human condition. If you tolerate a wide gamut of responses, and abuse, you're going to get abused. It sucks, but it's reality. The same thing happens (though, sometimes to a lesser degree, sometimes more) in our social circles. Boundaries are necessary in all facets of life. If they're not well-defined, then they're easily crossed and you're left trying t…
You’re just realistic, don’t sabotage yourself.
Re: I'm giving up on open source
#120> Open source is great, but it's not sustainable
It can be (I work for an open source company, our friends at Nextcloud are also fine, there plenty of examples of thriving projects), but it's a hard thing to tackle for sure and might not apply to every kinds of projects. As any kind of business, a business around open source requires a solid business strategy.
I also think dev libraries / components are probably among the hardest things to fund. I think the tools themselves should be open source and the dev subsidized by something else (a product for which the tool is developed, or consulting, or support, or hosting).
You can also sell entreprisy features to companies, even as free software actually (open core is not necessary, and the bulk of the feature can also be in a gratis module and you only sell the convenient UIs). Make it easy to employees of a company using your work to justify an expense. People will be happy to support your work if they like it by making their employer pay, and the employer will most likely be happy to pay because this can be reassuring, especially if support comes with the payment. It's way easier than relying on donations.
In any case, your open source business strategy of course needs to take in account that people will use your open source code for free, and will also report bugs, feedback, feature requests, ask questions, and this is costly. Sometimes you can manage to setup a community where people help each other, addressing the issue partially.
You'll need to have good communication on what is paid for, what are the expectations, etc; and well prepared answers to requests in tickets that both makes it clear you need to keep the lights on and don't piss people off. With good phrasing most people will understand and be grateful you are providing many things for free.
Of course there will be the mean comments. Some are not actually meant to be mean, but just come from people being pissed off or from misunderstandings. Effective communication can help with this. And some just come from jerks, unfortunately. I can only wish you good luck with this. Hang in there. Don't let them hurt you and take bad decisions. Hopefully (fortunately?) they are very few. Keep in mind most people are well meaning, grateful and most are quiet, especially when things work well for them.