Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm giving up on open source

nutjs.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 209 posts

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#41

Post by gertop »

anbardoi wrote: post #29
hobs wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great for you, but its the reason that vast swathes of corporate folks use OSS, and they are terrible citizens of it as well.

You know, I often wonder if I'll ever receive an encouraging or somewhat kind response on this forum. That's probably a lot to ask from the internet in general. But could you elaborate on what reason you mean? You mean learning how the software works, or just because it's free?

You said the reason you're using open source isn't because you don't want to pay for software.

He's saying the reason corporations use open source IS that they don't want to pay for software, as OP said.

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#42

Post by MBCook »

haswell wrote: post #25

I'm struggling with the framing of all of this. I think it's clear that the author doesn't want to be involved with the realities (as unfortunate as they are) of maintaining an OSS project. There are very real issues with entitled or abusive users that have been well documented. What I don't understand is the expectation that the money would just flow upon publishing the software with a permissive license. It sounds…

It doesn’t have to be a reality. But people let it be.

It’s only a reality because that kind of behavior is widely tolerated enough, or at least not met with harsh enough pushback, that it continues to drive away good contributors and cause burnout.

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#43

Post by danielmarkbruce »

lordleft wrote: post #6

I will never understand how entitled or mean people can be towards OSS devs. I sympathize with this post a great deal and wish the author all the best in whatever he does next.

It's mostly naivety. There are a lot of people who really don't understand that people are doing something without getting paid, as a side gig, just to be helpful. They just don't get it. An uncle, who is a totally decent human being otherwise would complain loudly and bitterly at folks who ran kids sporting events when things didn't run smoothly. At the time I didn't think much of it, until I was an adult and saw the adults running things things in their spare time despite having families and jobs etc. Just being good people. This uncle was just a very naive person, it's like he thought these people's entire existence was to run kids sporting events.

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#44

Post by MBCook »

unethical_ban wrote: post #40
haswell wrote: post #25

I'm struggling with the framing of all of this. I think it's clear that the author doesn't want to be involved with the realities (as unfortunate as they are) of maintaining an OSS project. There are very real issues with entitled or abusive users that have been well documented. What I don't understand is the expectation that the money would just flow upon publishing the software with a permissive license. It sounds…

Nailed it. Particularly the fact that as valid as OP's situation is, it isn't necessarily indicative of FOSS as a whole. They basically say it in their article: They grew up on the koolaid (no offense, so did I) of how awesome Linux and BSD are, and the GNU principles that closed source software is unethical, to be avoided, and so on. It seems the harsh reality of "Not everyone can be sustained by a nonprofit foundat…

That’s victim blaming.

“They were unrealistic and should have known they’d be personally attacked, it’s their own fault for being weak”.

Really? How about no one should be treated like shit for proving free software to you?

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#45

Post by gertop »

unethical_ban wrote: post #32

>You should do a better job updating your documentation so that people do not waste their time like I did. This change to closed source was announced where, exactly? All of your READMEs and documentation sites do not mention this. Very easy to be confused and very disappointing to me that this went closed-source. >Not only did you sell out, you also removed all the old versions that were released under an open source…

It screams Asperger's to me.

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#46

Post by talldayo »

MBCook wrote: post #38
croo wrote: post #3

Good read and I simpathise. Dealing with publicity can be horrible. You need such a thick skin and self confidence not to be moved by insults and demands coming with people actually start using what you created.

I disagree. Open source shouldn’t be limited to those with thick skin willing to take heaps of abuse. This is a big culture problem driving a ton of good people away to avoid annoying jerks who deserve to go.

If you want to coordinate a software project with multiple people, you need good people skills. Open source projects with an unstable core contributor very often fail or get forked into a clone by their community, it's just the nature of the thing.

It's a "big culture problem" in the same way profit maximization is the destroyer of modern businesses. Everyone uses Open Source software; annoying teenagers, political dissidents you disagree with, state actors, and businesses that will ignore your license (cough Tesla cough). If you don't rise above it, the the world isn't going to change according to your whims.

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#47

Post by binary132 »

I think that there is a very unhealthy dynamic to modern open-source software. I do see a future for free software but I'm not really sure the way it is today with liberal-licensed software will be sustainable outside of what will essentially by corporate properties. We really need to be thinking more about how we can secure computing freedom and less about how we can get famous or create consultancies or whatever by getting lots of gh stars. That system is actively getting gamed as hard as possible and it will get worse.

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#48

Post by DopplerSmell »

Woovie wrote: post #30

I understand some their complaints, others seem like typical support questions. It's inevitable and regardless of making money, it's going to happen. People suck at reading. But, I can't look past the AI art used to generate the YouTube thumbnail on the main page. I'm sure some artist wishes they could work on an art full time, and still be able to pay their bills just as you say you wish about your software. No one…

Weird take... AI art is cheap or free, but that doesn't mean anything at all in relation to how you treat the person providing the service.

You have failed to understand that the value of the service is fundamentally different, providing open source software costs a human effort.

Providing art no longer requires the same amount of human effort, if AI is acceptable, so it's not at all comparable.

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#49

Post by unethical_ban »

MBCook wrote: post #44
unethical_ban wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nailed it. Particularly the fact that as valid as OP's situation is, it isn't necessarily indicative of FOSS as a whole. They basically say it in their article: They grew up on the koolaid (no offense, so did I) of how awesome Linux and BSD are, and the GNU principles that closed source software is unethical, to be avoided, and so on. It seems the harsh reality of "Not everyone can be sustained by a nonprofit foundat…

That’s victim blaming. “They were unrealistic and should have known they’d be personally attacked, it’s their own fault for being weak”. Really? How about no one should be treated like shit for proving free software to you?

Haha! I just got done chastising someone for exactly what you accuse me of.

No, I'm not blaming the person for quitting because of the jerks. There are two narratives in the article: one is the dilemma of how to put food on the table as a developer, and one is about the abuse and criticism from people who pay nothing and expect everything.

So no, I don't "blame" the OP at all. No one should treat others rudely online, and OP had to deal with some awful stuff.

My comment was about the dream of an all-FOSS world and how that clashes with buying groceries for a lot of people.

Re: I'm giving up on open source

#50

Post by austin-cheney »

lordleft wrote: post #6

I will never understand how entitled or mean people can be towards OSS devs. I sympathize with this post a great deal and wish the author all the best in whatever he does next.

Entitlement.

Imagine if OSS went away tomorrow, not even all OSS, just the supplemental developer code specific tools. Suddenly 90+% of JavaScript developers would no longer be able to do their jobs. They wouldn’t even be able to pretend to write deliverable code. Careers instantly killed.

Nobody thinks about that. These free helpers are just assumed to be required and always available, completely taken for granted. These things are just presumed to be absolute necessary and unavoidable. God forbid those OSS devs don’t do your jobs for you too, or at least just provide a bit more custom help.

Post reply on HN