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Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

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Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#181

Post by bingbangboom »

faeriechangling wrote: post #157
otterley wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re obtusely mistaking the word “can” to mean “physically able” when in this context it clearly means “is permissible.” Can you murder someone? Even if you are physically capable of pulling a trigger, I think you know damn well that’s not what anyone means.

Am I using the word in that way? Sit-ins are an old protest tactic. They were used during the civil rights movement, in private property. They were used during labour protest, in private property. They have repeatedly been successful at achieving the protestors ends. They have repeatedly, in hindsight, been viewed in a favorable light and broadly seen as permissible. They were frequently, at the time, viewed as illeg…

[dead]

Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#182

Post by NeverFade »

edanm wrote: post #147
NeverFade wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> By every available poll, the Palestinians want to kill them all. I think that's a big stretch. Many/most Palestinians want "their" land back, and many/most might want Israel gone. But that is not at all the same as saying they want all Israelis killed. Some might want a one-state solution that gives them rights without necessarily infringing on Jews's rights, some might think that most Jews will have a place to go…

Hamas is the favorite to win an election in Palestinian state:

> If elections were held today, Fatah would lose to Hamas 17 to 34 percent.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-p...

They are also the party that won the last (and only) election held by Palestinians, as well as the current rulers of Gaza.

Their explicit goal is to kill every Jew in Israel, and they have acted it out in the genocidal 10/7 massacre.

So not only do Palestinians support a party that promotes the genocide of all Jews in Israel - by all available evidence, this party is currently the favorite to control a Palestinian state.

Not to mention there's pretty solid ground to believe that if Fatah (Hamas's only viable rival) controlled a Palestinian state, they'd also support the genocide of Jews. Just look at the education they provide to West Bank children, describing Jews as subhuman monsters that must be eradicated.

Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#183

Post by pcthrowaway »

rdtsc wrote: post #87

> Anti-Semitism appears to be rampant throughout Google’s workforce. If someone would have told me 5 years ago that in just a few years, Google employees would be accused of anti-semitism, or any -ism, really, I would have never believed it. They were on the frontlines "punching nazis" and fighting rising fascism here in US, and here they are, being accused of anti-semitism, themselves.

The protest was organized by Jewish Voice for Peace... are you suggesting they're an anti-semitic group?

Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#184

Post by wahnfrieden »

kelthuzad wrote: post #173
tsimionescu wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA supports the creation of two countries in that area: Israel, with its current borders minus the colonies it has illegally established in the West Bank, and Palestine, which would include the Gaza strip and the West Bank (in its full 1947 territory, minus the illegal Israeli colonies). The country of Palestine would then stretch from the river (in the West Bank) to the sea (in Gaza). Of course, it is also some…

Israel has not won its "right to exist", if anything, its entire history of ethnic-cleansing, murder, apartheid and now genocide has lost them the "right to exist", not that the apartheid colony ever had such a "right" anyway. Israel will only exist as long as it's possible for the USA to protect them, the moment that support crumbles Israel is no more. Looking at the trends, it's looking extremely bleak for Israel,…

It's terrible that absolute comments in one direction stay, and well cited (in thoroughness - quality of citations are just personal references in this case) ones that counter an unqualified absolute statement are routinely flagged out as bad behavior on topics like this

Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#185

Post by myth_drannon »

JamesAdir wrote: post #55
gorbot wrote: post #14

They said nimbus was for civilian use only, then time publishes an article saying they are dealing with the IDF directly and have a discount given that Nimbus exists… https://time.com/6966102/google-contract-israel-defense-mini...

The same contract the exists between CIA and aws for it's top secret regions. I always ponder why people protest against something that happens thousands of miles from their homes, while the same activity occurs in their own country.

Because TikTok and social media brainwashed them to do it. Note these protests are for very specific topic - Israel. Plenty of countries and their militaries/agencies deal with US companies, dictatorships and authoritarian governments.

Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#186

Post by tptacek »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #183
rdtsc wrote: post #87

> Anti-Semitism appears to be rampant throughout Google’s workforce. If someone would have told me 5 years ago that in just a few years, Google employees would be accused of anti-semitism, or any -ism, really, I would have never believed it. They were on the frontlines "punching nazis" and fighting rising fascism here in US, and here they are, being accused of anti-semitism, themselves.

The protest was organized by Jewish Voice for Peace... are you suggesting they're an anti-semitic group?

Many Jewish people do believe that, yes. JVP is not a mainstream group. They tread pretty close to the line on things like the Blood Libel in their rhetoric, and, in particular, in a long-term campaign they've run linking police violence in the US to Israel (a risible claim, for what it's worth).

I'm not saying they're antisemitic. I'm not qualified to render that kind of judgement. You can easily argue that the ADL isn't either --- the ADL has problemicized itself in a bunch of ways too in the last few years. But you probably shouldn't be shocked when people make that claim; it's a common one.

Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#187

Post by pcthrowaway »

tptacek wrote: post #186
pcthrowaway wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protest was organized by Jewish Voice for Peace... are you suggesting they're an anti-semitic group?

Many Jewish people do believe that, yes. JVP is not a mainstream group. They tread pretty close to the line on things like the Blood Libel in their rhetoric, and, in particular, in a long-term campaign they've run linking police violence in the US to Israel (a risible claim, for what it's worth). I'm not saying they're antisemitic. I'm not qualified to render that kind of judgement. You can easily argue that the ADL…

If people are arguing that a Jewish peace advocacy group is antisemitic, I think they've lost all conception of what that word means. They're using the word "antisemite" to mean anti-zionist or anti-Israel, or anti-occupation.

"Anti-semitism" is a hatred of Jewish people or discriminatory attitudes towards them.

There is a large contingency of Jewish people who believe Jews are better than other people (this idea is at least one of the beliefs underpinning the existence of Israel).

Calling Jews who push back against this narrative anti-semitic is like calling white people who oppose white supremacy anti-white.

Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#188

Post by dunekid »

x-egghead wrote: post #91
CommanderData wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically civil rights protest movement have been disruptive. Protesting a genocide arguably be even more disruptive. - Stonewall Riots (1969) - Soweto Uprising (1976) - Tiananmen Square protests (1989) - Women's Suffrage Movement - Anti-Apartheid Protests in South Africa US politician are hostages, opposing Israel on the political stage puts your life at risk.

That the rich digerati have taken up the cause of the ongoing Palestinian man-made famine and genocide diverges from actions of similar demographics in the past. The genocides in Rwanda and Bosnia received little notice in the global press and received little global action. This is positive progress. Even if the effect of an individual protest causes no direct change, it is important voices are heard and directed tow…

Not to agree or disagree with what you are saying here, unlike Rwanda and Bosnia, which were horrible enough, every single day of the apartheid and genocide operations are funded and aided by US. And in this instance the Nimbus program is actively complicit in it. If I were to use the trolley thing here, Rwanda and Bosnia were inaction, but this is fueling and arming the trolley to be a killing machine.

Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#189

Post by dunekid »

14 wrote: post #67

For once I see a post that needs to be locked as all it is going to do is bring the worst out in HN crowd. I think we are quickly crossing into "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity."

And the worst is really horrible. You would think that people who have pretty much all the resources to learn about the genocide is actively promoting the voice of the perpetrator. This for sure is an eye opening incident, if we were to get to AGI one day, what biases it might hold. And by looking at the attitude of those in power, future is looking a bit bleak.

Re: Google workers arrested after protesting company's work with Israel

#190

Post by tptacek »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #187
tptacek wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Jewish people do believe that, yes. JVP is not a mainstream group. They tread pretty close to the line on things like the Blood Libel in their rhetoric, and, in particular, in a long-term campaign they've run linking police violence in the US to Israel (a risible claim, for what it's worth). I'm not saying they're antisemitic. I'm not qualified to render that kind of judgement. You can easily argue that the ADL…

If people are arguing that a Jewish peace advocacy group is antisemitic, I think they've lost all conception of what that word means. They're using the word "antisemite" to mean anti-zionist or anti-Israel, or anti-occupation. "Anti-semitism" is a hatred of Jewish people or discriminatory attitudes towards them. There is a large contingency of Jewish people who believe Jews are better than other people (this idea is…

There are lots of white anti-white racists, there are Black anti-Black racists, and there are indeed Jewish antisemites. You're adopting a position of shock and disbelief that (some) Jewish people find JVP problematic. I'm telling you: that's not helping the credibility of your argument, because this is an old, well-covered controversy, and the points that JVP's critics raise aren't superficial. You don't have to agree with them, but to suggest that those critics have "lost all conception" of what "antisemitism" means mostly suggests that you're unfamiliar with JVP.

(I don't know what I believe about JVP! My confidence in any assessment is very low. What I do know, though, is that if I were doing persuasive work, like, say, getting a ceasefire resolution passed in my municipality, I would do my best to keep JVP's name off the enterprise.)

For a clearer example of this phenomenon, unrelated to JVP, see Jewish Currents, also frequently cited in discussions to insulate arguments from accusations of antisemitism.

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