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Mental health in software engineering

vadimkravcenko.com

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Re: Mental health in software engineering

#391

Post by iamacyborg »

euroderf wrote: post #389
iamacyborg wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t put the quotes to indicate any irony, just that they’re explicitly different to your sick days and allotted differently. I was interviewing at a company recently and they called out that they offer 1 mental health day per month, in addition to other benefits.

Curious - is it a "use it or lose it", or can an unused MH day be carried over to the next month ?

I didn't end up getting the job there but I assume it's use it or lose it. It's basically an extra 12 days of paid holiday a year which is quite significant.

Re: Mental health in software engineering

#392

Post by euroderf »

iamacyborg wrote: post #391
euroderf wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious - is it a "use it or lose it", or can an unused MH day be carried over to the next month ?

I didn't end up getting the job there but I assume it's use it or lose it. It's basically an extra 12 days of paid holiday a year which is quite significant.

Indeed so.

Re: Mental health in software engineering

#393

Post by infoseek12 »

Zenzero wrote: post #268
david-gpu wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While it may sound insensitive, software engineering is nowhere near as complex or stressful as many (but not all) medical roles. It is both mentally and physically less taxing As much as I respect your personal experience, I think you make a mistake in assuming that it is universal. Further, you are also making the mistake of invalidating other people's individual experiences based on your perception of what the a…

I hear what you're saying, but I don't feel I said it was universal in the sense that you're describing it. On the whole I would rate the average software engineer as having a less stressful life than the average doctor. I acknowledge that there are outliers and individual experiences that go against the average. That said, I would argue that you underestimate the number of people in medicine who are burnt out. Many…

I think software engineering is just as complex as medicine, both endeavors try to utilize human cognitive ability to the maximum extent possible.

I do entirely agree about software engineering being a lot less stressful though.

Re: Mental health in software engineering

#394

Post by tomcar288 »

StillBored wrote: post #267

In almost 30 years of software engineering, I came to the conclusion years ago that most deadlines were entirely arbitrary. The business isn't going to fail if you slip a week, or frequently even six months and if it does its probably not the fault of engineering unless its so dysfunctional as to repeatably blow through its own delivery estimates. Sure there are regulatory deadlines, customer POC or delivery deadline…

Yup and as a user of things like virtualbox and docker and numerous other softwares I really hate updates and so called "upgrades". I'd rather have a stable version that gets updated far less frequently.

Re: Mental health in software engineering

#395

Post by thfuran »

NortySpock wrote: post #321
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that an appropriate measure? Are chefs sad that none of the meals they created are still around?

Does an empathetic doctor not smile when they see their patients in good health? Does a lawyer not take pride in a well-written contract that shielded their company when the client turned adversarial? Does a former mayor not visit the parks they opened, the civil works projects that they helped organize or brokered deals for? Does a salesman not remember their biggest sale? Their wildest outing? Their most critical c…

>Why would a software developer not want to know how long their projects lasted?

But the software is a tool used by customers to do the actual equivalents of the things you listed. As you said for the lawyer: They're happy the the contract fulfilled its purpose, not that it's still sitting on a shelf somewhere.

Re: Mental health in software engineering

#396

Post by JohnFen »

tomcar288 wrote: post #394
StillBored wrote: post #267

In almost 30 years of software engineering, I came to the conclusion years ago that most deadlines were entirely arbitrary. The business isn't going to fail if you slip a week, or frequently even six months and if it does its probably not the fault of engineering unless its so dysfunctional as to repeatably blow through its own delivery estimates. Sure there are regulatory deadlines, customer POC or delivery deadline…

Yup and as a user of things like virtualbox and docker and numerous other softwares I really hate updates and so called "upgrades". I'd rather have a stable version that gets updated far less frequently.

I couldn't agree more. I'm old enough to remember when software updates were something people anticipated and enjoyed.

Now, they're a burden to be avoided or procrastinated.

Re: Mental health in software engineering

#397

Post by ElevenLathe »

chrisweekly wrote: post #188
np- wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Even if by some miracle you do deliver, and are considered a superstar, then what? What do superstars get? Probably just even more crunch work, since you've proven you're willing to do it.

This reminds me of the scene in Schindler's List where the SS officer asks the enslaved factory worker to show him how fast he can assemble a particular component. The terrified worker races to assemble it in record time, anxious to please and impress the nazi -- who responds to the effect of: "if you can make them that fast, why is your daily quota so low?"

This was also a standard technique on American plantations, then adapted to the industrial economy in the form of Taylorist time-and-motion studies. If you trace modern management practice, it is basically a straight line back to chattel slavery.

Re: Mental health in software engineering

#398

Post by JohnFen »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #379
nox101 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the industry. Video games are still sold at retails stores (Target, Best Buy, ...). Those stores have to coordinate what is going to be on their shelves months in advance (6+)? So you promise your game will be ready and in a package and at their loading dock by November 15th. If you miss the deadline their shelf is empty of product since its spot was reserved for you. Other customer electronics have sim…

Day 1 patches are increasingly a thing specifically to help with this. Ship a "release" version of the game so that it can be made physical and distributed and then continue working on it so that on day 1 users plop their disk in an download a patch for everything that didn't make it on the disk.

This is a horrible practice that is very unfriendly to customers. It is tolerable as an occasional thing to recover from some sort of development disaster, but not as a standard practice.

Re: Mental health in software engineering

#399

Post by JohnFen »

Tainnor wrote: post #366
StillBored wrote: post #267

In almost 30 years of software engineering, I came to the conclusion years ago that most deadlines were entirely arbitrary. The business isn't going to fail if you slip a week, or frequently even six months and if it does its probably not the fault of engineering unless its so dysfunctional as to repeatably blow through its own delivery estimates. Sure there are regulatory deadlines, customer POC or delivery deadline…

I wonder where everyone is working, because in 11 years and several employers I've rarely had deadlines, if any, and if so, they usually came from customers and were announced in advance. Then again, I also never worked a 80 hour week. Maybe that's a US thing (I'm in Europe)?

I'm in the US and the only time I've ever worked 80 hours/wk is when I was working for my own companies.

That said, I've had deadline in literally every place I've ever worked (including my own companies). Even if they're artificial, deadlines are important. Without them, procrastination can all too easily take root.

Re: Mental health in software engineering

#400

Post by JohnFen »

makeitdouble wrote: post #347
redrove wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an engineer I agree, but I’ve had the misfortune of managing poorly performing teams composed of unfit individuals that I couldn’t get rid of and they would do absolutely nothing if I didn’t arbitrarily give them some deadlines at least now and then. It goes both ways.

I hear you. I see those more as checkpoints than deadlines though. Even with highly self managing people, it's always safer to have some idea of how much time it could take, and check for some kind of status midway to know if it's too different from the rough estimate (sometimes you learn they didn't touch the task for various reasons)

A checkpoint is a flavor of deadline.
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