Another successful graduate of the CCP re-education summer camp!
Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
171–180 of 204 posts
Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
When it comes to getting advice on where the EV market is going, I am definetly going to listen to the guy who is the leader of EVs in the US. Would I take relationship advice from him? Probably not, but we are talking about the EV market here.
I - that's a truly stunning mindset I don't have words. Why would you consider the market leader of a market a reliable source for information on the market? Maybe this is obvious to me coming from a world where all banks have their own analysts and all but the idea of trusting a market leader is just insane. Information asymmetry is so important to capitalism he's obviously not going to provide the full picture. The…
>Why would you consider the market leader of a market a reliable source for information on the market?
You seem to be ignoring how they literally created and led this market over the last 15+ years. I get how you are so blinded by your hate of one man that you completely ignore the facts on the ground but do you have to make it so obvious?
> Maybe this is obvious to me coming from a world where all banks have their own analysts and all but the idea of trusting a market leader is just insane. Information asymmetry is so important to capitalism he's obviously not going to provide the full picture.
This would be a plausible statement if it hasn't been disproven time and time agin over the last 10 years. See the entire short industry that got burned by their analysts. I was there on day 1 of the /r/Realtesla a subreddit dedicated to pushing the thesis of following industry experts and analysis. In 2019 they were convinced that Tesla was structurally bankrupt.
The hard lesson I learned after years of failed predictions based on analysis is that banks and analysts only have a snapshot of a current moment in time and do not consider the fast moving nature of innovation led companies.
They have gotten this wrong with many tech companies but especially Tesla. Just to give you one example: all the analysts and shorts were certain that Tesla would fail in 2018 due to their live up to the minute counts of materials going in and out of the factories. They had live video feeds of everything happening outside the factory. They failed to predict Musk using a loophole in California laws to set up a giant tent and get production levels increased. That changed the entire calculus.
Musk has repeatedly proven the analysts wrong and so I'd ask why would you continue to trust them? Their motivation is to get people to pay their fees yet it seems as if they suffer no major consequences for continually getting it wrong.
Going back to what Musk said(which you obviously didn't even bother reading): "If there are no trade barriers established, they will pretty much demolish most other car companies in the world," he said. "They're extremely good."
You might be able to make the argument that he is self serving in his comments but this quote is a poor hill to die on.
Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is just an anecdote but I have seen talks where the Chinese look at the silicon valley grind culture of long working hours and sacrifice and think how can these people be so lazy? Working long hours isn't necessarily efficient.
Exactly. The OP didn't know any English teachers in China, or else they can verify that Chinese workers in private enterprises nap on the job/play on their phone/waste a ton of time, to get through the long working hours.
The output in relation to competitors is what matters in the end. At this point their results are impressive.
Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know man, from the outside looking in it seems like despite this arrangement, the people doing the day to day work are fiercely competitive and they want it all. This is just an anecdote but I have seen talks where the Chinese look at the silicon valley grind culture of long working hours and sacrifice and think how can these people be so lazy? Maybe state ownership will collapse it all, maybe the coming demo…
From what I’ve seen the motivation of Chinese workers is the same as any worker - to make money.
There is an argument to be made then when a country is on the rise and developing rapidly there is a sense of PMA(Positive mental attitude) among the people. Maybe you are just projecting American stagnation on Chinese?
Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sometimes state-owned enterprises might be able to outperform a private structure! They can ... until they don't and there's no market correction in place anymore to keep them in check. It's going to take another decade to feel this effect but it'll be there in full force.
This is sound analysis sans ideological bs. The system lacks a self-correction mechanism. The profit driven system is supposed to self-correct. We see this today, with Boeing for example (yes /s). Now beyond snark, we can ask is the same thing happening to us that happened to the "commies" with the 'defense and national security' establishment raising troubling doppelgangers of "state industry" from the body of "mark…
Eh, Boeing is a defacto state owned enterprise. Check out their board composition if you don’t believe me.
Or are you more complaining about the lack of honesty in these defacto situations?
In China, any company larger than a tiny one is state controlled anyway - someone from the CCP needs to have a board seat, and everyone knows what happens if you anger the party.
Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you define hard work as intellectually challenging work, there absolutely is a strong link between hard work and wealth in China. Even the corrupt bureaucrats have to pass a difficult exam to become bureaucrats.
Which one and why is cheating nepotism not as widespread as with everything else? In a company or functioning democracy in competition, if you nepotism, you kill the company..
Only if the person picked via nepotism isn’t competent.
Which is less likely (one would hope) than via other methods, but the correlation is not as strong as we’d all like.
Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
#177Just going by appearances, the story at the time looked a lot like Jack Ma fleeing the country for a bit. One minute he was disturbing the tranquillity in China then the next he was picking up some Zen among the cherry blossoms. It is interesting to compare-and-contrast Jack Ma and Elon Musk who seems to me the nearest analogue in the US. How their host countries treat them says a lot about the real cultural differen…
I'm not sure it is safe to build wealth anywhere, anymore, although the US is the country I chose to register my company in, because it is probably the safest. Still, I have my reservations. Petty theft like shoplifting is being increasingly normalized and justified in the US (see train package theft), and enforcement of property law is slipping, see how home owners can lose their home to "squatting". This is a very…
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Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it’s good to be clear headed and acknowledge empirical evidence when it’s there. Context is useful in understanding the mechanisms of society! “This thing goes against my orthodoxy therefore I refuse to see it” is exactly the sort of attitude that gets you far away from success. For the record, I was merely saying it’s possible for a state owned enterprise to do things quickly, even if in practice most of the…
Sure, then by all means share your evidence or data for a successful state owned enterprise vs private enterprises
I invite you to share your evidence that all private enterprises are strictly superior to any state owned enterprises, as that is clearly the stronger (and less likely to be valid) position.
Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
#179Just going by appearances, the story at the time looked a lot like Jack Ma fleeing the country for a bit. One minute he was disturbing the tranquillity in China then the next he was picking up some Zen among the cherry blossoms. It is interesting to compare-and-contrast Jack Ma and Elon Musk who seems to me the nearest analogue in the US. How their host countries treat them says a lot about the real cultural differen…
I'm not sure it is safe to build wealth anywhere, anymore, although the US is the country I chose to register my company in, because it is probably the safest. Still, I have my reservations. Petty theft like shoplifting is being increasingly normalized and justified in the US (see train package theft), and enforcement of property law is slipping, see how home owners can lose their home to "squatting". This is a very…
Wonder if some of this is just people needing more and more of a 'thrill'. The US culture is one of auspicious displays of wealth or exceptionalism that things like doing train robberies, drifting in crowded times square, or outrunning cops for the 'likes' is the latest fad.....maybe im overthinking it and its just a lack of parenting.
Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you really just compare the state of America to... the Russian Revolution?
Fair, I think. We had protestors storm the centers of government, attempting to overthrow it, after the last election. So many similarities if you only look.
Whats old is new again, just with more enshittification(in your example instead of gladiators storming the capitol we got lard butts one of which died by heart attack)