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Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

reuters.com

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Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#91

Post by nebula8804 »

kurthr wrote: post #86
nebula8804 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know man, from the outside looking in it seems like despite this arrangement, the people doing the day to day work are fiercely competitive and they want it all. This is just an anecdote but I have seen talks where the Chinese look at the silicon valley grind culture of long working hours and sacrifice and think how can these people be so lazy? Maybe state ownership will collapse it all, maybe the coming demo…

Check out a couple of phrases on Chinese media (they are heavily censored): tang ping (躺平) bailan (摆爛) If you just want English language go for SCMP: https://www.scmp.com/yp/discover/lifestyle/article/3194858/l... The money has already been made by those in power and the only way to make more is to follow the government gravy train. For the last decade that has meant batteries, EVs, semiconductors, displays are all s…

The lie flat movement is a legitimate movement that touches upon the same problems the youth are experiencing elsewhere around the world but it appears to be a fizzling movement everywhere. Even the US equivalent of quiet quitting and utter hopelessness is waning in the US with the slow demise of the far left and right.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#92

Post by nebula8804 »

amou234 wrote: post #88
nebula8804 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that but then we see things like BYD introducing products like this. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvdO-zdlKg Unless you want to keep your head in the sand and pretend this is the soviet union all over again, you better start paying attention to how fast they are iterating. >China is now Soviet Union, but with horrendous demographics, mind-numbing debt, and wealth flooding out of the country. China is…

BYD is not a Chinese state enterprise...yet. And yeah, I'm not worried. Nio Loses $35,000 A Car. https://www.carscoops.com/2023/10/nio-loses-35000-a-car-that... BYD lost its EV crown to Tesla after just one quarter as China’s EV market slumps https://fortune.com/asia/2024/04/03/byd-loses-ev-crown-to-te... The EU just got a step closer to hitting Chinese EVs with additional tariffs—and may even apply them retroactivel…

Ok feel free to not be worried.

I'd rather listen to Elon in this regard, this is one thing he does have experience in.

[1]:https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

>The EU just got a step closer to hitting Chinese EVs with additional tariffs—and may even apply them retroactively

The EU having no major tech giants to call their own has pivoted to regulation and tariffs against both China and the US.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#93

Post by kiba »

nebula8804 wrote: post #77
amou234 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The future of Chinese tech belongs to companies that are much more fast moving Not at all. The future of Chinese tech is state owned enterprises [1]. Just like other Chinese industries, such as state owned real estates [2] or state run communal restaurants [3]. Just like Soviet Union, before it fell. "The Peterson Institute for International Economics analyzed the market capitalization of China's top 100 companies.…

I don't know man, from the outside looking in it seems like despite this arrangement, the people doing the day to day work are fiercely competitive and they want it all. This is just an anecdote but I have seen talks where the Chinese look at the silicon valley grind culture of long working hours and sacrifice and think how can these people be so lazy? Maybe state ownership will collapse it all, maybe the coming demo…

This is just an anecdote but I have seen talks where the Chinese look at the silicon valley grind culture of long working hours and sacrifice and think how can these people be so lazy?

Working long hours isn't necessarily efficient.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#94

Post by baby »

roenxi wrote: post #2

Just going by appearances, the story at the time looked a lot like Jack Ma fleeing the country for a bit. One minute he was disturbing the tranquillity in China then the next he was picking up some Zen among the cherry blossoms. It is interesting to compare-and-contrast Jack Ma and Elon Musk who seems to me the nearest analogue in the US. How their host countries treat them says a lot about the real cultural differen…

I understand the feeling, but on the other hand I don't think these are good examples because these people have gotten filthy rich and it's not clear to me if we actually need such accumulation of wealth. There's probably a healthy cap somewhere, the same way power is capped in the government.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#95

Post by yorwba »

dsab wrote: post #82
fancl20 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard they switched to fully use a recommending system for search (don't know how it works today but feels like that's still the case), which means there is there is no real search happening and you query is used as a hint, not a search query (which relativeness matters more). At that time PDD is promoting the idea you buy what they think you will buy. PDD's search is barely functioning at that time and their bussi…

What is PDD?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinduoduo

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#96

Post by baby »

spxneo wrote: post #89

Seeing Jack Ma come out like this makes me think things are very grim in China and I been obsessively following it for years. Historically, no country has survived without paying its government workers for more than 24 months. China has just entered its 16th month. so roughly 8 months remaining. coincidentally the new US president will be announced around then. So far the actions of Israel, Russia's confidence sugges…

wdym China is not payment its government workers?

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#97

Post by TeaBrain »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #70
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter-example, the fall of communism in Eastern bloc was (mostly) a very peaceful process. A notable exception was Romania where the ruler was particularly cruel but in several other countries the system changed without one shot being fired, even though surely there were quite a few proponents of the old regime.

The institution of whatever came after the fall of communism was done by force, just like the institution that came before it, for the reason you describe: it's impossible to get literally everyone in an entire country to agree on a government, so the government must be imposed by force.

The comment you are referring to wasn't referring to the difficulty in getting everyone to agree on a form of government, but on how it is impossible to create a large-scale communist economic system without imposing it. This is due to how is it necessary to confiscate property in order to redistribute it in a communist system, which naturally has its opponents, as those who have worked for property believe they have earned it. Almost all of the Soviet states transitioned to market economy democracies without any conflict at all, so your assertion for the need of force is completely wrong. The transition was natural as the people naturally preferred a market economy system, which had led to an underground market economy being created during the Soviet days, known as the second economy of the Soviet Union.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#98

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

TeaBrain wrote: post #97
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The institution of whatever came after the fall of communism was done by force, just like the institution that came before it, for the reason you describe: it's impossible to get literally everyone in an entire country to agree on a government, so the government must be imposed by force.

The comment you are referring to wasn't referring to the difficulty in getting everyone to agree on a form of government, but on how it is impossible to create a large-scale communist economic system without imposing it. This is due to how is it necessary to confiscate property in order to redistribute it in a communist system, which naturally has its opponents, as those who have worked for property believe they have…

> The comment you are referring to wasn't referring to the difficulty in getting everyone to agree on a form of government, but on how it is impossible to create a large-scale communist economic system without imposing it.

That is correct, and I was pointing out that it isn't specific to communism: any government or economic system will have at least 1 person who doesn't like it, but the system being created nonetheless requires imposing it by force, and maintaining it by force, which nearly every government does to this day.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#99

Post by somedude895 »

RangerScience wrote: post #8
daghamm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is still ruled by communism, the goverment has a majority share in every company. That's bad for entrepreneurs, but also means that they can have the entire power of CCP behind them. There are tons of example where a small company started by stealing from western competitors then suddenly produced a huge pile of cash out of nowhere to bought those competitors and took over their marketshare in the west.

/Personally/, I’d attribute that more to authoritarianism than communism, but the two have been commingled since Lenin so it’s not necessarily an important difference.

I'd agree it's basically just a form of authoritarianism. Then again, different regimes have simply adapted communism to their own interpretation. You get North Korea with their Chuch'e, the Chinese call theirs "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics", you had Ba'athism in Iraq. But yeah, communism in its pure, traditional form these are not.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#100

Post by UberFly »

baby wrote: post #94
roenxi wrote: post #2

Just going by appearances, the story at the time looked a lot like Jack Ma fleeing the country for a bit. One minute he was disturbing the tranquillity in China then the next he was picking up some Zen among the cherry blossoms. It is interesting to compare-and-contrast Jack Ma and Elon Musk who seems to me the nearest analogue in the US. How their host countries treat them says a lot about the real cultural differen…

I understand the feeling, but on the other hand I don't think these are good examples because these people have gotten filthy rich and it's not clear to me if we actually need such accumulation of wealth. There's probably a healthy cap somewhere, the same way power is capped in the government.

I agree with your extreme wealth sentiment, but a government-imposed cap on wealth would be a much much bigger problem overall.
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