Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#931

Post by imgabe » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 11:21 PM UTC

boomlinde wrote: post #744

imgabe wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two avenues to deal with a hazard. You can try to manipulate the environment to eliminate the hazard, or you can try to strengthen people to make them immune to the hazard. I think we should prefer the latter over the former whenever possible. For one thing, it's more robust. The environment is messy and control is often illusory at best. Control limits freedoms and introduces centralized points of failure…

If the hazard is just me skulking about and punching you in the back of your head every time you let your guard down, you could strengthen yourself and make yourself immune by never going outside and always keeping your door locked and barring up your windows. How is that inherently preferable to the addressing the harm itself? By what principle do you conclude that we should prefer one over the other whenever possib…

Or we could have the government require that everyone wear a loudspeaker that constantly announces their presence so that nobody can sneak up on anyone. Citizens are required to purchase their own loudspeaker and anyone caught not wearing one will be fined or jailed.

Is that what you prefer?

On the other hand, if everyone around you was a black belt in jiu jitsu and you knew that there was a good chance that they’d break your arm if you tried to sneak up and punch them, you probably wouldn’t want to do that, would you?

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#932

Post by shufflerofrocks » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 11:25 PM UTC

runamuck wrote: post #620

randomdata wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She doesn't share her actual thoughts That's where social media has been most damaging. You can't share your thoughts anymore. The 'Redditization' of the world means that sharing thoughts is met with hostility. No longer can you just throw something out there, no matter how stupid. These days you have carry an entire encyclopedia with you in order to back up every last thing you say and if you utter anything that i…

I have a good rule. I NEVER reply to someone who comments on my comment w/ hostile intent. For example: I made an innocent comment on a YouTube video, and someone completely misread the comment and posted a hostile reply. I wanted to explain to him that he misread my comment but I just let it go. You never need to defend yourself. If you want to post a comment, post it. If someone misunderstands or mocks you, let the…

I find myself doing this more often recently. I enjoy posting/discussing/debating, but it's hostile right now on social media - it's exhausting.

You can't have a discussion with someone who wants to "gotcha" you for clout

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#933

Post by flagmenow000 » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 11:50 PM UTC

miiiiiike wrote: post #772

gwervc wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You certainly can just throw things out there On 4chan sure, on Reddit absolutely hecking no. On the main subs in French wrongthink comments get deleted super fast, and on one English-speaking about a hobby it's an immediate ban.

Indiscriminate banning/blocking is the thing that turned me off most social media. I don’t post anywhere but HN so my profiles are always bare. Starting something like 5 years ago I’d follow someone and within a day, flip a coin, on tails I was banned or blocked. I eventually deleted the last of my social accounts. They turned into places where strangers were just there to torment each other or receive unconditional…

[flagged]

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#934

Post by datavirtue » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 11:57 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #486

skilled wrote: post #337

I'm no saint when it comes to addiction and being on my phone for more than I should be, but I have a sister who is in her mid 20s right now, and for the last couple of years she has slowly isolated herself from life and her family, she spends most of her time in her room on the phone and does weird things like get cosmetic surgeries, ordering cosmetics, etc. It's bizarre. She does this and all the while never leaves…

> She doesn't share her actual thoughts That's where social media has been most damaging. You can't share your thoughts anymore. The 'Redditization' of the world means that sharing thoughts is met with hostility. No longer can you just throw something out there, no matter how stupid. These days you have carry an entire encyclopedia with you in order to back up every last thing you say and if you utter anything that i…

"These days you have carry an entire encyclopedia with you in order to back up every last thing you say and if you utter anything that isn't deemed 100% perfect by those listening, the social scorn will fall upon you."

You just described HN perfectly. I can shrug it off because I remain anon here and don't care about my rating, but I see other people being traumatized by this dynamic in other social media platforms.

I'm not sure what switched but I remember being on Slashdot and having people go off on me or others, and it was just hilarious. These days it seems like people are genuinely being traumatized regularly by the engagements.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#935

Post by Aerroon » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:40 AM UTC

nonrandomstring wrote: post #697

Aerroon wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The freedom from the scourge of drugs" is why I can't buy an asthma inhaler without paying out the nose to see a specialist that will prescribe it to me. As a result I don't have an asthma inhaler. I feel very free when breathing gets hard. This is a snarky comment, but this is the consequence of this "negative freedom". I do think that there's some merit to these ideas, but I think it would always leave the choice…

I'd really like to understand your comment better Aerroon. Is this something to do with the US healthcare system? Can you elaborate please? (BTW if it is, one of my friends who is a type-1 diabetic was involved in the very political "humanitarian airdrop" of insulin to the USA. - so I kind of get it)

I'm not in the US, but drug politics is pretty similar globally due to the Single Convention of Narcotic Drugs of 1961 and its successors.

Asthma inhalers just happen to fall under a prescription requirement in my country like most other drugs. Sure, this has its benefits, but also downsides. That's really all there is to it. I only brought it up, because I rarely see this side mentioned. Everybody seems to think that prescriptions aren't a barrier, but from my experience that's not true.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#936

Post by hot_gril » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:43 AM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #74

hot_gril wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean how much time is spent on electronics and away from people overall. Mobile devices increased that a lot, but they aren't the only part. There are way more PC gamers than before, for example. My classmates also used early Facebook more on PCs, maybe because some features didn't work on iPhones (Flash content?). They'd just sit at home on the PC all night. I'd even count remote classrooms/work. In 2020, people d…

Thirty years earlier people were also "always at home". Watching TV, or playing console games… The big difference was: At least the youth was at home together with others doing so. You went over to your neighbor to watch some TV show for example. What changed quite lately are indeed the always online smartphones. You don't need to go to your neighbor, even if you want to "do something together" (of course online, lik…

That's why I was saying electronics are the driver. As they've become more advanced, people have spent more time on them and less time socializing.

Also, I'm not going to dismiss the "devil who destroys the morale of our youth" accusation cause I'm way too young to remember a time before TV. For all I know, maybe social life was better before it. I used to miss out on visiting my cousins because they were "busy" silently watching a football game for hours every weekend.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#937

Post by fragmede » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:57 AM UTC

uconnectlol wrote: post #509

raziel2p wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you don't like these products and feel they are negative, then don't use them It's really not that simple. The products have become so widespread and influential that they change the very culture of our society for the worse. It doesn't matter whether you abstain from using Instagram or not, some of your friends will still be more or less subtly influenced by its existence in your social interactions. There's a…

> It's really not that simple except it is, because law is dumb, stupid, and slow-witted. if you ban facebook specifically, the next day it will think that means mailing lists should also be banned. btw ive witnessed lots of mailing list and then web forum addicted deadbeats before social media came out but whatever the legal solution is nothing (i realize not all of you have asked for the legal solution yet but that…

After the DMCA and the CFAA, what techie thinks the law will work out in their favor?

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#938

Post by Cub3 » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 1:12 AM UTC

idle_zealot wrote: post #96

spxneo wrote: post #82

When we was teenagers we had unrestricted broadband access to the internet but what was missing was the constant comparison hellhole like Instagram that is causing mental illness. WaReZ, KaZaA, Ogrish, CD-Keys, drugs, weapon making tutorials, Mail-order-drugs. This was the wild west days of the internet. You could literally put up anything you could sell anything and everything. Classmates were downloading roms, porn…

What you're describing sounds more socially healthy than modern usage. It was kids exploring the world digitally. Now that's been captured by digital fiefdoms actively manipulating their users into unhealthy levels of engagement by any means necessary.

> actively manipulating their users into unhealthy levels of engagement

Which is the root issue here, why don't we ban online advertising as a business model or significantly tax it to create a cost of x engagement

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#939

Post by pfisch » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 1:17 AM UTC

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #869

yieldcrv wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we could regulate feedback loops, "the algorithm"

Wait yeah that sounds like the solution. The actual behavior of companies is easy to regulate and requires no great firewall. Just stop them from doing the most addictive stuff and it’ll almost certainly help a ton of people.

idk, I think we need to do more to control who can and can't post on social media. I don't see how the 1st amendment would ever allow it but serial liars and scammers should be more limited in their ability to spread their garbage.

People who have defamation or fraud judgements against them shouldn't be allowed to post on social media for 5-10 years following the judgement. Also we should place pretty severe limits on anonymity for posting on social media.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#940

Post by api » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 1:23 AM UTC

v-erne wrote: post #897

jay_kyburz wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are 11 and 12. We have a YouTube time limit of 30 mins a day, and there are some videos that are just not allowed. Nothing with too much bad language, Nothing with people doing dangerous things to be funny, nothing with rich people buying stuff to break. I did spend some time in both my kids accounts blocking streamers I thought where just bad influences. It has given us a chance to talk about why some of the…

Any specific reason for hating roblox? I'm especially interested in game developer perspective (parent perspective is familiar to me being father of two and aware that most of roblox content is of rather poor quality)

It seemed unusually addictive with a lot of stupid games that were nonetheless oddly captivating. Reminded me a lot of addictive (to kids) shit YouTube content. Roblox also had poor parental controls.

Anything that serves up dumb or toxic content that is extremely “engaging” gets banned. YouTube was the worst by far but TikTok and Roblox also meet this criteria.

I forgot to mention Instagram. Kids haven’t seen it but it’s been preemptively banned because it’s full of toxic influencers and other trash. Could say the same about Facebook but kids have zero interest in that so no need to bother. Facebook is where older people go to get their brains sucked out by conspiritainment and political echo chamber groups.