Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#771

Post by s1artibartfast » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 3:55 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #684

genrilz wrote: post #571

This is a post in a debate between Jonathan Haidt and Candice Odgers. If you look at the meta-analysis cited by both, Haidt cites one which does seem to show a high effect size correlational link between screen time and depression. Odgers cites 4 meta analyses, one of which is actually a meta-meta analysis, which all claim that the effect size on depression and other measures of well-being are small. I'm not quite su…

Since we're all applying our own anecdotes, I can tell you my kids have had unfettered and unregulated screen time pretty much their whole lives on account of I don't really believe Haidt's point of view. They have absolutely zero interest in any social media platform except YouTube which we all frequently watch together. My son got inspired to cook by watching youtube. My daughter loves Vihart and wants to study mat…

>I think Gen Z and Alpha have anxiety because the adults in charge of the world are such worse people than they are.

I think this is an interesting insight and I wonder if the anxiety and cynicism is related to a significant miss-match between expectations and reality.

They were sold an bunch of ideals which are essentially maladaptive because the world operates so radically different than how they were told it does/should.

This is similar in concept to how Generation Y erroneously learned from watching TV shows like The Simpsons that a typical middle class lifestyle includes owning a 2,000 ft house, which was never the case. When the "promised" good never arrive, people are naturally outraged, angry, or jaded.

If Gen Z and A are taught that for the world to be good, it must be a place of peace an justice, their teachers have burdened them with a Sisyphean task, and doomed them to living miserably in an evil world.

I place the blame on the idealism and absolutism of earlier generations, which rejected realism, incrementalism, and compromise. In my opinion, to find happiness, people need to be able to come to terms with world as it is, and then accept that they can only incrementally improve it.

I know I would be anxious, depressed, and neurotic if I was told that the world was broken and evil, and it was my responsibility for the impossible task of fixing everything.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#772

Post by miiiiiike » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 3:56 PM UTC

gwervc wrote: post #703

amplex1337 wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You certainly can just throw things out there, but if you are obsessed with making every single person satisfied with your thoughts, you are going to have a bad time. The world is full of people who disagree with you, but you need to learn more than ever to recognize and filter out what you don't care about. I don't even view replies to posts any longer, 98% of the time because I am not seeking validation sharing my…

> You certainly can just throw things out there On 4chan sure, on Reddit absolutely hecking no. On the main subs in French wrongthink comments get deleted super fast, and on one English-speaking about a hobby it's an immediate ban.

Indiscriminate banning/blocking is the thing that turned me off most social media.

I don’t post anywhere but HN so my profiles are always bare. Starting something like 5 years ago I’d follow someone and within a day, flip a coin, on tails I was banned or blocked.

I eventually deleted the last of my social accounts. They turned into places where strangers were just there to torment each other or receive unconditional praise.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#773

Post by yifanl » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 3:56 PM UTC

spxneo wrote: post #82

When we was teenagers we had unrestricted broadband access to the internet but what was missing was the constant comparison hellhole like Instagram that is causing mental illness. WaReZ, KaZaA, Ogrish, CD-Keys, drugs, weapon making tutorials, Mail-order-drugs. This was the wild west days of the internet. You could literally put up anything you could sell anything and everything. Classmates were downloading roms, porn…

The difference between the internet of the 2000s and the 2010s is how profitable it was to push things. No one got paid to get me to click on lemonparty, they did it because it was (to them) funny. Nowadays, there are industries that exist solely to get me to click on garbage, and it turns out profit is a much more powerful motive than comedy.

I can ignore/laugh with/block/modreport That One Guy, I can't do anything about an infinite number of marketers.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#774

Post by pksebben » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 3:58 PM UTC

kbrackbill wrote: post #755

pksebben wrote: post #746

I'm all about most of this. I disconnected from facestagramitter a while ago, and it was the best thing I've ever done for myself bar none. Got a change of career out of it and a vast improvement in my personal life. But... > Did life in America suddenly get that much worse during President Obama’s second term, as the economy was steadily improving? Yes. Yes it did. The bank bailout was one of the worst things to com…

I'm curious, how did disconnecting lead to a career change?

Was bartender, always liked computers and wanted to work with 'em. Self-taught my way into the field (which is a gross simplification but broadly gets at the meat of it).

Disconnecting from social media was part of a larger effort to remove distractions - around the same time I also deleted steam and cancelled my netflix account. The wealth of time this left me to focus on self-development was absolutely critical to figuring out how to 'take my computer hobby pro'.

My guess as to 'why it worked' is this; in those moments when I'm sitting around with nothing to do, there are no easy outs (facebook/insta having been the easiest and lowest-drag options for spending time, they were the biggest offenders) so you sit with your discomfort at being underoccupied for a moment, get frustrated, and pick up a tutorial, technical manual, or start googling around for answers to a question you have.

By no means was it "deleted facebook and productivity gods smiled upon me, bestowing me with champion focus and a fulfilling career", but without the disconnect, I'm confident I would have failed. The times when I would be doomscrolling also turned out to be the times I had the best bursts of inspiration, besides being the entry point for more focused bouts of actual, real work.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#775

Post by apexalpha » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:00 PM UTC

worthless-trash wrote: post #398

apexalpha wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's her life so I leave her alone, not my place to tell her what to do, and the emotional upheaval from her isn't worth it either. In my culture this is exactly what family should do. "Soft doctors make stinking wounds".

> and the emotional upheaval from her isn't worth it either. If you loved your sister, you should do something, if direct confrontation isnt working, take another route. > In my culture this is exactly what family should do. I assume you mean "family should intervene here", because if you don't who would ?

>I assume you mean "family should intervene here", because if you don't who would ?

yes

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#776

Post by Lacerda69 » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:00 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #688

amplex1337 wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You certainly can just throw things out there, but if you are obsessed with making every single person satisfied with your thoughts, you are going to have a bad time. The world is full of people who disagree with you, but you need to learn more than ever to recognize and filter out what you don't care about. I don't even view replies to posts any longer, 98% of the time because I am not seeking validation sharing my…

The world is full of people who disagree with you, but you need to learn more than ever to recognize and filter out what you don't care about. I don't even view replies to posts any longer, 98% of the time because I am not seeking validation sharing my opinion. This is something it's taken me a while to come to terms with. I used to want to fully engage with everybody and everything. It was anathema to me to just "br…

I no longer say things online except some rare occasions. Mass social media online discourse will slowly vanish in the next 15 yrs

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#777

Post by spxneo » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:02 PM UTC

yifanl wrote: post #773

spxneo wrote: post #82

When we was teenagers we had unrestricted broadband access to the internet but what was missing was the constant comparison hellhole like Instagram that is causing mental illness. WaReZ, KaZaA, Ogrish, CD-Keys, drugs, weapon making tutorials, Mail-order-drugs. This was the wild west days of the internet. You could literally put up anything you could sell anything and everything. Classmates were downloading roms, porn…

The difference between the internet of the 2000s and the 2010s is how profitable it was to push things. No one got paid to get me to click on lemonparty, they did it because it was (to them) funny. Nowadays, there are industries that exist solely to get me to click on garbage, and it turns out profit is a much more powerful motive than comedy. I can ignore/laugh with/block/modreport That One Guy, I can't do anything…

just a testament to how much freedom of speech and expression we had then vs now

hai2u has strangely been scrubbed from the internet while lemonparty, meatspin, 2girls1cup lives on

the person in hai2u was actually jailed for the content he produced in American court

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#778

Post by silverquiet » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:03 PM UTC

pelagicAustral wrote: post #726

silverquiet wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the psychiatrist his idea or the parents'? I assume the parents, but if it was his then that's something. I heard something interesting on a podcast recently - Kara Swisher was interviewing her son who said that if you're Gen A, it's sort of hard not to be a nihilist. For me personally, I sort of look at how fast the world is heating up and do some basic math about life expectancy, and I'm sort of expecting to se…

It was my mother's idea... Very clearly I have no idea about what goes on in his head, anyone's head for what matters... But when I compare my upbringing with his, I cannot understand how is it that this happen. I had so little, and struggle so much compared to him, and it's him the one giving up on life before even trying? This is thought that hunts me the most. Feels like giving someone way too much of anything jus…

What do you feel he got too much of that he didn't have to struggle? I don't think it's wrong that pressure is sometimes formative, but also too much pressure will cause systems to fail; humans included. I had plenty of adversity as a child (an illness that has caused a lifetime of chronic pain), and what I learned is that there is no limit to the amount of pain life can provide you, and it doesn't mean anything, and no one really cares about it. I suspect a lot of us just realize early on that the nihilists are correct, and so trading video game skins is as meaningful as anything else, and at least it makes sense unlike most of life. Maybe the psychiatrists can find a drug that gives meaning though; they'll keep trying for awhile usually.

I assume you've asked him about what goes on in his head at least - what does he tell you?

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#779

Post by coldtea » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:03 PM UTC

ergonaught wrote: post #526

_heimdall wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some backward people don't understand that "being isolated and doom scrolling all day" or "getting tons of destructive cosmetic surgeries" or "Amway" can also be a torally fine purpose in life. I really can't tell if this is a sarcastic comment or not, so just to be clear none of these examples are examples of purpose. How one spends their time isn't purpose, it's just a description of their day.

I think the main point is that it isn’t anyone else’s business how an individual chooses to spend their time. Absence some other criteria for concern, “I don’t like that they do this therefore they must stop doing it” is a line of thinking that desperately needs to be eradicated from human culture.

>I think the main point is that it isn’t anyone else’s business how an individual chooses to spend their time.

Nah, it was sarcasm

>Absence some other criteria for concern, “I don’t like that they do this therefore they must stop doing it” is a line of thinking that desperately needs to be eradicated from human culture.

There are other criteria for concern, both empathy and concern for the invididual (other people recognizingt that living that way is destructive) but also concern for the general consequences in a society where people do those things.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#780

Post by boplicity » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:04 PM UTC

skilled wrote: post #337

I'm no saint when it comes to addiction and being on my phone for more than I should be, but I have a sister who is in her mid 20s right now, and for the last couple of years she has slowly isolated herself from life and her family, she spends most of her time in her room on the phone and does weird things like get cosmetic surgeries, ordering cosmetics, etc. It's bizarre. She does this and all the while never leaves…

This sounds very much like classic addictive behavior. I recommend reading up on Al-Anon, so you can learn more about what you can and can't do, in terms of helping an addict.