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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

eidel.io

611–620 of 1001 posts

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The degradation comes from waves of austerity politics by right wing governments. These services are expensive and require staff to keep things going. Austerity ideology dictates that there simply must be inefficiency in public services, and cuts are the cure to this disease since this will cause the public sector to "make do and mend" and end up running more efficiently, rather than having a knock on effect and decr…

I know basically nothing about Finland, and was curious about your comment as I find government spending an interesting topic. So the first thing I did was look up the government budget trends in Finland. [1] As an outsider it just seems that the Finnish budget is growing at an exponential pace? From 2010 to 2019 the budget went from ~50bn to 55bn per year, nearly managing to even create a balanced budget in 2018. Fr…

The central government took full responsibility of funding healthcare, social services, and some other government functions in 2023. Before that, large part of the funding came from municipal governments.

Then there is the war in Ukraine. Normally, Russia is one of the most important trading partners of Finland. But when it doesn't know how to behave, a large part of foreign trade is missing, and the economy suffers.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please add a link for people relying on this info.

A link to what? Travel within the Schengen area is unrestricted, you can drive or fly to wherever you want and nobody will check passports.

That's true, and if you're doing intra-Schengen travel to attend a relative's funeral, I'd consider risking it...

But otherwise: keep in mind that the freedom of movement is reserved to EU citizens (and their families): if you had to get a residence permit (and thus you're a non-EU national), you don't have the same rights.

Even without temporary (Covid, terrorism, etc.) internal checks, you can be stopped by police (national laws will differ) and be asked to show proof of id, and proof of your right to stay.

The fact that you have a pending residence application in progress will usually give the right to stay in the country that you applied in, but that proof might be as flimsy as as a stamped slip of paper (not even a A4 paper with a letterhead) and/or an email in the local language. Don't expect German police to be able to read and accept your Italian piece of paper, or viceversa Italian police to read and accept your piece of paper in German.

In fact, the same applies for non-EU family of EU citizens: the residence permits will be denied only in extreme cases (e.g. terrorism)... if you're just a non-EU citizen, there are even more situations in which that would apply. Imagine that the country that you applied in might refuse your residence permit: you'd then have to leave the country and Schengen (or file some kind of appeal), and that would make it even clearer that you wouldn't have right to stay in another Schengen country.

So, you might not have right to stay (in another Schengen country), and even if you might have it, proving your right might not be easy.

About the

> Please add a link

The original request could've made sense (you could have for example linked to directive 2004/38/EC , but that doesn't apply to people who aren't EU citizens or family of EU citizens)... but note that in this case we're trying to prove a negative (the laws will usually describe which rights you have, but not in which case you don't have such a right... you might find a guidance or case law document, but those are scarcer)

Again: the whole situation is really unfortunate, because the laws are also written with the expectation that you won't have to wait long after applying for the necessary documents. And even when the laws are clear about the timelines, the bureaucracy will try to weasel themselves out of it, for example Article 10 of the aforementioned directive states:

> The right of residence of family members of a Union citizen who are not nationals of a Member State shall be evidenced by the issuing of a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" no later than six months from the date on which they submit the application. A certificate of application for the residence card shall be issued immediately

Of course, when we had to deal with it, the bureaucracy just asserted that until you show up for the appointment (which you had to wait more than 3 months for, since you originally applied), you haven't actually "submitted your application", yet.

As an EU citizen, realizing first-hand how slow, uncertain, and oppressive our immigration system is, really left a bad taste in my mouth... If you're not a citizen of the EU or an “Annex II” country, I wish you good luck when applying for a Schengen visa, but in case that you might get rejected: don't sweat it, and just consider other destinations, if you're planning a vacation... there are a bunch more places with friendlier visa policies (e.g. Turkiye, Cape Verde, Morocco, UAE, etc.)

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#613
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh for sure it could be much better in Germany, and I hope that rapidly becomes the case. Definitely digitization needs to come faster. My complaint is simply people imagining it is perfect elsewhere. Really that is not the case, no where is perfect. All the people chiming in about the US being so easy, yes, wonderful. Now let's talk about healthcare and how your health insurance is tied to your employer. Everyone wh…

Within Europe: Austria, Switzerland, UK, NL are better than Germany for bureaucracy. Brexit may be an issue for Europeans, but the system is now more fair for non Europeans who want to go to UK. Outside Europe: Canada, Hong Kong, Singapore is better than Germany.

> but the system is now more fair for non Europeans who want to go to UK.

What wasn't fair before and what makes it more fair now for non-EU people?

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#614
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the time is not necessarily the issue. The issue is that everything is very manual and “analog” in Germany. You have to find a notary, register the “Gewerbe” at the Gewerbeamt, get a tax ID, and so forth. All are different processes with different institutions. In theory, you can do the notarization online, but when I attempted to do it, the first notary did not even reply, and the second one told me: “The sy…

The friction is precisely the point.

Security through friction is not an ideal security model at all.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries that see immigration as an opportunity have systems that are far far superior to that of Germany. In Germany it's often not clear what status a process is in and no way to get updates. There often is no web portal or anything like that, it's nuts. For instance you submit an application for the retention of your German passport and then basically wait 2+ years for the answer to come back. No one answer…

Yes, the country needs to be both competent and strongly willing to court new comers and permanent residents in the first place. On your experience, it really feels like a PITA. It won't help, but Japan and France are basically the same. You'll see procedures listed as typically taking 2~3 months, check back every now and then, and low and behold a year and half later you have absolutely no idea of what's going on, i…

[deleted]

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#616
post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schufa, Rundfunkbeitrag, and copyright trolls have no problem cross linking personal data between government databases in Germany. > However, this is understandable given German history. So tired of this apologetics, modern German bureaucracy has been built exactly by former Nazis and Stasi agents.

> So tired of this apologetics, modern German bureaucracy has been built exactly by former Nazis and Stasi agents. I would argue that they are the best then to design something private :)

Yes after eliminating or mauling those they don't consider worthy living ;) lol hahaha.

Seriously though if you're allowed to corner part of the population and brutally vent on them, next you'll need "privacy" to avoid consequences and revenge.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries that see immigration as an opportunity have systems that are far far superior to that of Germany. In Germany it's often not clear what status a process is in and no way to get updates. There often is no web portal or anything like that, it's nuts. For instance you submit an application for the retention of your German passport and then basically wait 2+ years for the answer to come back. No one answer…

Yes, the country needs to be both competent and strongly willing to court new comers and permanent residents in the first place. On your experience, it really feels like a PITA. It won't help, but Japan and France are basically the same. You'll see procedures listed as typically taking 2~3 months, check back every now and then, and low and behold a year and half later you have absolutely no idea of what's going on, i…

>When did you have this experience in Japan? In my experience, immigrating to Japan is a breeze. Even during Covid, it took about 2 months to process my work visa, and from there everything was fast and easy.

PR is pretty slow, though: my coworkers who have applied are reporting wait times of about 9 months.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the redeeming qualities of Germany?

Orderly, rational people. Hard working, rich country, despite no natural wealth. No cutting corners, one of the reasons bureaucracy is so horrid. You are expected to have your shit together, still people are as lenient as they can be. Things work, you can trust people. Low crime, clean streets. Good sense of morality. Country is capable of much more, still holds itself back a lot, preference in humbleness. Things are…

>rational people

Hardly. A lot of people buy into FUD without questioning it. A lot of people never question their government or rules no matter how stupid they are.

They'll just tell you to follow the rules even if you explain to them in a 100 page essay why those rules make no sense and are even detrimental.

They never acknowledge the possibility that their government/bureaucratic systems in palce can be faulty. If it doesn't work for you, then it must be your fault, not the system's fault.

It's the kind of blind trust in the system that lead to the Wirecard scandal happening under the watch of the entire world.

Rational people constantly question things, not trust and follow them blindly.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#619
post #114

I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…

Come to Italy, it can't be any worse than here. Here bureaucracy is a huge and very lucrative business. Getting a driving licence privately here is the epitome of stupidity. Honestly I can't understand how so many basic common-sense things in life are self-over-complicated just to favor bureocrats and state-maintained employees.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the redeeming qualities of Germany?

A country that is incredibly rich in historical significance (both good and bad), cultural traditions, art (historical and modern), regional variety and nature. Cities are walkable, public transport is mostly decent (it's perfectly fine to live without a car if you're in the city), crime is low, poverty is low, the economy has been tanking a bit recently, but has traditionally been doing well. In terms of mentality,…

Germany has some great burger restaurants. Cafes are pretty good too.
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