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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#511

Post by shoubidouwah »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #494
anewhnaccount2 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The degradation comes from waves of austerity politics by right wing governments. These services are expensive and require staff to keep things going. Austerity ideology dictates that there simply must be inefficiency in public services, and cuts are the cure to this disease since this will cause the public sector to "make do and mend" and end up running more efficiently, rather than having a knock on effect and decr…

> Austerity ideology dictates that there simply must be inefficiency in public services, and cuts are the cure to this disease since this will cause the public sector to "make do and mend" There is some weird notion in populace that if we cut the funding, the public services will "get handle of themselves" and become more cost efficient. That's what a reasonable individual would do in tougher times. What happens in r…

"Austerity is dropout"

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#512

Post by MrJohz »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #425
MrJohz wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truly the worst thing about living in Germany is the apparent national hobby of complaining about things that perhaps aren't great, but really aren't as bad as you might think. In practice, German schools are pretty decent, but they obsess about PISA scores and so neglect to ever notice what the schools are doing well. The train networks are fairly extensive, can be quite cheap depending on how you travel, and consis…

I disagree heavily. Just because you have trains going everywhere (that's not a Germany-specific thing) doesn't mean they are allowed to be hours late. The transport system is broken, was destroyed by trying to cut costs in the past. Same with schools and educators. And don't get me started on healthcare. Your sentiment is part of the problem to be honest: Germans are always complaining, it's fine as it is bla bla. I…

I'm comparing this mostly to the UK, which is not a third world country. And to be clear, I agree that DB have been absolutely awful with delays and a lack of proper track maintenance.

But to present that as a full picture of the German transport system is to be completely myopic, and that's the issue. Yes, improvement is possible and necessary, but it's also nice to celebrate the successes of your country, and having a single system that covers pretty much all of the country, that integrates regional and intercity travel, that has a transparent and reasonably cost-effective pricing structure, that includes deals like the Länder-Tickets and the 49€ ticket, that is clean, and many other things besides feels like a success to me.

Do there need to be changes and improvements? Yes, of course! But this sort of self-flagellation ("oh woe is us, our transport system isn't perfect") is really tiring.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#513

Post by throwaway220033 »

redrove wrote: post #498
throwaway220033 wrote: post #456

Germany is a cult, not country. The whole system is designed for slavery. Never question anything here, just obey the rules, give up your individuality and live without a soul. The new European way of freedom is not building your own life; you must let government take care of you, and in return you do what they ask. The best part is they think they are free and afraid of their privacy. If freedom is not thinking for…

While I wholeheartedly agree with your points about being forced to remain a wage slave for pennies (in comparison to say the US) and people relying on the government way too much— these are right on the money — I do think casually slipping in “orgies” lessens the validity of your claim in the reader’s mind. Also I don’t think it’s fair to claim immigrants are being set on fire (with no citations) like it’s just regu…

My comment meant to trigger thoughts, not your echo. Do your own thinking.

Just last week a Turkish family was set on fire. They will claim the victims are not Turkish and then won’t reveal the identities or photos of them. So you won’t know it’s still happening.

Just talk to any Turkish person. Speaking of startups; Nazis here still attack Turkish small business owners. Ordinary people also face racist attacks if they get out of their neighborhood. Also at work if you work with Germans you’ll deal with mobbing.

There was even a serial killer just murdering Turkish small business owners. So you thought it’s just bureaucracy?

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#514

Post by danielbln »

Tainnor wrote: post #389
whalesalad wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the redeeming qualities of Germany?

A country that is incredibly rich in historical significance (both good and bad), cultural traditions, art (historical and modern), regional variety and nature. Cities are walkable, public transport is mostly decent (it's perfectly fine to live without a car if you're in the city), crime is low, poverty is low, the economy has been tanking a bit recently, but has traditionally been doing well. In terms of mentality,…

Don't forget bread. Whenever I travel to the US I'm appalled by what is considered good bread there. Not throwing shade here, it's just what it is. On the flipside, buying Avocados here in Germany is akin to a crime against humanity.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#515

Post by concordDance »

anewhnaccount2 wrote: post #471
usr1106 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am familiar with both German and Finnish bureaucracy. German bureaucracy is (in)famous for paperwork and using faxes. Citizens/residents have no unique identifier (more and more weakened recently) and need to present documentation for everything. If you have no paper birth certificate you are not born... Finland has had much higher digitalization for decades. You have a person number and authorities store everythin…

The degradation comes from waves of austerity politics by right wing governments. These services are expensive and require staff to keep things going. Austerity ideology dictates that there simply must be inefficiency in public services, and cuts are the cure to this disease since this will cause the public sector to "make do and mend" and end up running more efficiently, rather than having a knock on effect and decr…

I often see comments like this, but what's a good solution to the ever expanding cost of public services (to the point most of western europe now has gov spending at 40%+ of gdp)? You do need to cut back if you're starting to run a significant deficit or more and more of your budget will go on interest payments.

Any large org tends to get more inefficient with time as it accumulates inefficient components it can't get rid of, but unlike companies, government departments aren't going to go bust and close down.

I genuinely don't know a good answer here, but would be curious about other people's.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#516

Post by bboygravity »

nicbou wrote: post #114

I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…

Now try Portugal. It will make Germany look like a walk in the park.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#517

Post by mk89 »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #437
microtonal wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bureaucracy problem is compounded by not wanting to link databases between government organizations and a general resistance to anything digital that involves personal data (except Facebook et al. for some reason), which reduces efficiency a lot . However, this is understandable given German history.

Schufa, Rundfunkbeitrag, and copyright trolls have no problem cross linking personal data between government databases in Germany. > However, this is understandable given German history. So tired of this apologetics, modern German bureaucracy has been built exactly by former Nazis and Stasi agents.

> So tired of this apologetics, modern German bureaucracy has been built exactly by former Nazis and Stasi agents.

I would argue that they are the best then to design something private :)

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#518

Post by pezezin »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #424
nicbou wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine too! My residence permit expired in February, and my appointment is in July. I expect to have a valid residence title again by end of August. Mind you, I applied in December. I will not be able to travel out of the country for most of the summer as I wouldn't be allowed to reenter. They refused multiple times to issue the temporary permit that I'm legally entitled to. I'm having a lawyer ask again, this time wit…

Try Spain, takes years

I guess that depends on the city and the procedure, but I had to replace my DNI last summer and it took me less than 30 minutes, and they gave me the new one on the spot.

In comparison I also had to renew my Japanese foreign card and later my ID card, and both procedures were a royal PITA, and in both cases I had to wait a month to get the new card.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#519

Post by beAbU »

usr1106 wrote: post #420
nicbou wrote: post #114

I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…

I am familiar with both German and Finnish bureaucracy. German bureaucracy is (in)famous for paperwork and using faxes. Citizens/residents have no unique identifier (more and more weakened recently) and need to present documentation for everything. If you have no paper birth certificate you are not born... Finland has had much higher digitalization for decades. You have a person number and authorities store everythin…

For all it's many many faults, I have to say I'm sometimes surprised by how efficient some South African bureaucratic state organs function. To get a renewed passport is a 5 minute online form, electronic payment, and then a 30 minute appointment at a local bank branch to get biometrics taken. Then about 1-2 weeks later you can go and pick up your new passport.

Driving license not much different.

For most people, paying taxes is a non-event, and tax returns happens automatically in most cases.

Then the bad: - Firearm licenses: more like months if not years in some cases. - Birth and marriage certificates: 4-6 months - Permission for building/construction/alterations: Don't even waste your time. - Healthcare: get private insurance if you value your life. - Public transport: lol

It's interesting how in sufficiently large and complex bureaucratic systems (Governments, Microsoft, etc), you get little pockets of excellence because somewhere in the mess of it all, there is someone who cares about their job, and they put the effort in to make it better for their users/customers.

In South Africa's case, these pockets of excellence are often and frequently replaced, because they are being measured by different metrics than what we as citizens care about, and deemed lacking: Party first, enable corruption, etc. So then you have these government institutions that every 10-15 years or so get renewed, and then coast on that renewal while it gradually goes to shit, before someone steps in and fixes it all up, before them being fired again for not allowing the right amount of corruption to take place. Vicious cycle.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#520

Post by WA »

anovikov wrote: post #358

What is the upside of opening a company there if you can incorporate in a EU country with much much lower taxation say Cyprus or, you have a EU citizenship and the company is in IT field, Malta, and pay just 5% tax (and 0% tax on dividends from it if you move there and become a tax resident)? It effectively means increasing your income 2x-2.4x depending on how high the revenue is, vs paying 30% profit tax and then on…

Because you usually have to move to the other EU country, or at least live there for half the year and many people still like to live in Germany. Optimizing taxes might not be the main goal in life.
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