How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain • Hacker News Board

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#171

Post by nicbou » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:05 PM UTC

hariharan_uno wrote: post #160

nicbou wrote: post #114

I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…

I completely agree. I have been living here for 8 years, and recently applied for a permanent settlement permit. My application went into a blackhole for more than 4 months, while my existing permit expired, essentially making me a prisoner here (I can stay and work in Germany but if I travel internationally, I won't be allowed entry back). Meanwhile, my applications for a temporary travel permit were unanswered for…

Mine too! My residence permit expired in February, and my appointment is in July. I expect to have a valid residence title again by end of August.

Mind you, I applied in December. I will not be able to travel out of the country for most of the summer as I wouldn't be allowed to reenter.

They refused multiple times to issue the temporary permit that I'm legally entitled to. I'm having a lawyer ask again, this time with the threat of a lawsuit.

It's such a common problem that I had to write a detailed article about it. People miss weddings and funerals because the immigration office is months late. The number of lawsuits due to inaction is growing exponentially since 2019.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#172

Post by somat » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:06 PM UTC

morkalork wrote: post #158

somat wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like notaries are a different service as well, in the US a notary is a minor(very minor) government official whose primary purpose is to verify that the person signing a document is the person they are claiming to be. For the most part US notaries have little knowledge of the contents of that document. In California (I think other states, but each state has it's own specific laws) the fees are fixed below a…

At least in Canada, it's not government employees but rather not-quite-a-lawyer types who are glorified ID verifiers.

I was a but optimistic on my wording, But in the US they are not government employees(they are not paid any sort of salary) just citizens who are authorized to verify signatures(a governmental duty, which is why I called them minor government officials) and are are allowed to collect a small fixed fee for their effort.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#173

Post by NoboruWataya » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:06 PM UTC

RicoElectrico wrote: post #20

I wonder: why EU did not try to somewhat harmonize company law? I can understand that things like tax code, penal code would not benefit from unification across disparate societies, but companies seem like a ripe target. This should have begun 20 or so years ago.

Others have mentioned the Societas Europea, which I think is the correct way to do this--provide an option to use a pan-EU legal form. The other way--mandatorily replacing member states' legal forms with one or more pan-EU forms--would simply be too disruptive. You'd be forcing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of companies to change their legal form. Even if you tried to make the conversion process automatic, there's no one-size-fits-all approach to converting every company that won't end up with some companies automatically adopting constitutions that don't make sense (for example).

Some particular aspects of company law are partially harmonised at EU level, for example insolvency law. But that's mostly about ensuring that cross-border insolvencies don't become hopelessly complicated and bogged down through parallel proceedings.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#174

Post by _Microft » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:07 PM UTC

hnhg wrote: post #115

_Microft wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this reply [0] to a comment of yours is true, then you’re allowed to „temporarily“ leave Germany for 7-12 years before being affected by this. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39790138

I answered later in the thread: "Unfortunately, so far that deferral will most likely come with the requirement for a security, typically cash. That is the prevailing view of tax specialists right now, but will depend on each individual's experience with their local tax authorities." Sadly, you cannot just leave and think it would be automatically deferred. You must apply for the deferral before you leave and the loc…

What would prevent anyone making off with the money owed if they didn‘t require that?

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#175

Post by nickpsecurity » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:08 PM UTC

yau8edq12i wrote: post #4

bouncing wrote: post #2

Not to brag, but there are so few things to actually feel some civic pride for in America, and business registration is one of them, so I guess we have that. I can get an IRS EIN (tax ID), register an LLC, obtain a sales tax license (only required for selling stuff), and open a business checking account in about 2 hours in Colorado. Someone who knows what they’re doing and doesn’t spend time researching banking optio…

Unless you're opening companies on a daily basis to evade taxes or whatever, I fail to see why you would need the process to be that fast. Because with such short delays, nobody will have actually checked anything, so the only winners are fraudsters, in the end.

What you are actually saying is that speed is only for criminals and anything honest must drag out for a long time. Neither are true.

Starting this process should only require that they know their responsibilities, have identified themselves, and have fulfilled any obligations like payment. With government having our ID’s and login/sig/payment tech, each step should be done in seconds. Then, some fraud prevention spotting obvious issues might add a bit more time. It should still be quick.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#176

Post by PurpleRamen » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:09 PM UTC

ricc wrote: post #124

mk89 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Soon you'll be able to use a credit card in most shops even! Not sure where you people live, but this myth has to stop, eventually. I can literally count on one hand the n. of shops NOT accepting cards - it's most of the times shops which, I guess, use cash to have flexibility in their accountings :)

“Accepting cards” is not the same as “accepting credit cards” though… A lot of them only accept girocards and not credit cards…

Debitcards, not girocards. I have no girocard since years, and still can easily pay everywhere. But to be fair, the pandemia really pushed this even the small shops.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#177

Post by nickpsecurity » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:11 PM UTC

anaidenov wrote: post #122

yau8edq12i wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're opening companies on a daily basis to evade taxes or whatever, I fail to see why you would need the process to be that fast. Because with such short delays, nobody will have actually checked anything, so the only winners are fraudsters, in the end.

A seasoned fraudster or tax evader have all the experience, time, and resources to navigate and exploit the system regardless of the measures in place. On the other hand, an ordinary individual considering starting a new business, perhaps only a few times in their lifetime, may indeed be dissuaded from pursuing this venture. This issue mirrors the inefficacy of anti-money laundering policies, which, while intended to…

For anyone reading, here’s a URL for the paper they are taking about:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/25741292.2020.1...

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#178

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

somat wrote: post #172

morkalork wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Canada, it's not government employees but rather not-quite-a-lawyer types who are glorified ID verifiers.

I was a but optimistic on my wording, But in the US they are not government employees(they are not paid any sort of salary) just citizens who are authorized to verify signatures(a governmental duty, which is why I called them minor government officials) and are are allowed to collect a small fixed fee for their effort.

[deleted]

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#179

Post by Ekaros » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

OtherShrezzing wrote: post #15

Minimum initial share capital of €12,500 to found a company where liability is limited to the firm seems like a very regressive impediment to business. For comparison in the UK, there's a £12 registration fee, and a £1 (one pound) minimum initial share capital. It must put limited liability out of reach of so many people.

Depends if this can be spend. On things like equipment, services and wages and so on. It is not actually that much money as runaway for most fields.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#180

Post by freyfogle » Sun, Apr 07, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #168

freyfogle wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived/worked/banked in four countries (UK, US, ES, DE). Germany is not at the cutting edge, but it is far from the worse. The interactions I have had with bureaucratic systems in Thüringen have all been entirely fine. Friendly people, clear process, done quickly. Obviously that is only an n=1. It is a rural area that is not overloaded as Berlin is. Which country would you consider "modern"? My experiences: In…

My biggest gripes, summed up: - The requirements are arbitrary, undocumented, and largely depend on how the case worker feels on a given day. Common wisdom is to bring far more documents than asked for, just in case. - Everything is paper-based. You are expected to act as a transport layer between offices that won't talk to each other. Everything is mailed, because digital communications are distrusted and digitalisa…

Oh for sure it could be much better in Germany, and I hope that rapidly becomes the case. Definitely digitization needs to come faster.

My complaint is simply people imagining it is perfect elsewhere. Really that is not the case, no where is perfect. All the people chiming in about the US being so easy, yes, wonderful. Now let's talk about healthcare and how your health insurance is tied to your employer. Everyone who is extolling how simple the UK is, that's lovely. What a shame about brexit though.

The point is there are major pains absolutely everywhere.