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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#381

Post by Tainnor »

nicbou wrote: post #114

I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…

Other people have already written this, but Berlin is not a good representation for Germany as a whole. It has been known for decades within Germany for having a dysfunctional government structure and administration (due in part to unclear division of responsibilities between districts and the city).

Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional.

The neglicence of the state of Berlin is actually illegal in many cases. I once even asked a lawyer if I could sue them for their delays, but he wrote back to me to the effect that he was too much on good terms with them to sue, but that I could pay him some money (out of my pocket, of course) so he would go "talk" to them.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#382

Post by jamil7 »

niemandhier wrote: post #378
hariharan_uno wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. I have been living here for 8 years, and recently applied for a permanent settlement permit. My application went into a blackhole for more than 4 months, while my existing permit expired, essentially making me a prisoner here (I can stay and work in Germany but if I travel internationally, I won't be allowed entry back). Meanwhile, my applications for a temporary travel permit were unanswered for…

My sympathy for your troubles, but please keep in mind: Everybody is processing Ukranians and Arabs. The system was never meant for such a rapid influx of people. The people working on immigration are not lazy or unmotivated, they are exhausted.

Have you gone through the process? The system wasn’t “designed” at all, it’s completely broken and chaotic. It is 100% the fault of this system and not that of the immigrants going through it.

Some of the people involved can also be extremely unpleasant to deal with, even if you speak German.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#384

Post by presentation »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #143
toast0 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article you linked in that comment[1], it seems like this exit tax only applied to companies where you own 1% or more? and it's structured as the capital gains tax, but due now, so on the current value minus your cost basis. The US has an exit tax if you renounce citizenship, and it's assessed on your entire net worth. If the article you linked is accurate, this german tax seems much more reasonable. EDIT: a…

isn't comparing it to an even worse jurisdiction like US a bit unfair? why not compare it to other EU countries or even Asia. I'm not a US citizen but being taxed on my global income would be a pretty strong reason to renounce my citizenship.

For what it's worth Japan also has a nasty exit tax.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#385

Post by mdekkers »

I founded a business in Germany, and the tax departments decided to asses me for 2024 to an amount of 100% of my combined 2020-2022 turnover. Instopped trading halfway through 2023, abd there will be no turnover for 2024. I currently have a tax “debt” that is literally more money than the business ever _collected_ over it’s entire existence.

It is nearly impossible to find a tax lawyer that is willing to take on the case, and my accountant keeps telling me that there is nothing to do except pay up and then wait for the refund. I don’t now have, or ever had in the past, the kind of money they are demanding. The anxiety that this situation has been causing for the past year and a half (they did a similar stunt for 2023) has become unbearable - I am threatened with personal bankruptcy and jail time for taxes I don’t even owe - and I often consider the easy way out.

I recently had to appear, in person, at the tax office (I reside on the other side if Europe now, but was forced to make the trip). There are no options to send a representative. You must make declarations in person, like its 1734.

Living in Germany and running a business there is turning out to be the biggest mistake of my life.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#386

Post by mdekkers »

niemandhier wrote: post #378
hariharan_uno wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. I have been living here for 8 years, and recently applied for a permanent settlement permit. My application went into a blackhole for more than 4 months, while my existing permit expired, essentially making me a prisoner here (I can stay and work in Germany but if I travel internationally, I won't be allowed entry back). Meanwhile, my applications for a temporary travel permit were unanswered for…

My sympathy for your troubles, but please keep in mind: Everybody is processing Ukranians and Arabs. The system was never meant for such a rapid influx of people. The people working on immigration are not lazy or unmotivated, they are exhausted.

> Everybody is processing Ukranians and Arabs.

That’s nonsense. The Ukrainians go through an expedited process. Before the war we put in an application for my spouse - 3rd party national spouse of an EU citizen process - we applied pretty much the day after we arrived and a few days before we left the country to live elsewhere (2 1/2 years later) we got a letter that they are considering giving her an appointment.

The German bureaucracy sucks hard.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#387

Post by niemandhier »

jamil7 wrote: post #382
niemandhier wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sympathy for your troubles, but please keep in mind: Everybody is processing Ukranians and Arabs. The system was never meant for such a rapid influx of people. The people working on immigration are not lazy or unmotivated, they are exhausted.

Have you gone through the process? The system wasn’t “designed” at all, it’s completely broken and chaotic. It is 100% the fault of this system and not that of the immigrants going through it. Some of the people involved can also be extremely unpleasant to deal with, even if you speak German.

I accompanied several friends through the process.

My observation was that by simply changing the view on what is happening and extrapolating how to act based on that one can achieve quite a lot.

I told people the following:

1. The person dealing with you is not there to help you, they are simply executing an act of governance. Rather than wanting them to help you, try to help them close their tickt.

2. You are the type of immigrant people actually want. These popele see lots of drama, lies, heartbreak and hopelessness. If you are pleasant and well prepared they will probably like working on your case since it will not make them feel bad.

3. Things take time. Be as early as possible with everything and realize that there early is a way to speed things up.

Keeping those three things to heart worked very well. That does not make things faster, but it takes a lot of frustration out of the process.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#388

Post by mdekkers »

Tainnor wrote: post #381
nicbou wrote: post #114

I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…

Other people have already written this, but Berlin is not a good representation for Germany as a whole. It has been known for decades within Germany for having a dysfunctional government structure and administration (due in part to unclear division of responsibilities between districts and the city). Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional. The neglicence of the state of Berlin is actuall…

> Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional.

Data to back up your assertion that it’s only Berlin? I can speak for Düsseldorf, which is a total nightmare. Literally everything folks talk about regarding issues in Berlin also happens as a matter of course in Düsseldorf.

A friend of mine is high up in the NRW civil servants apparatus and he confirms it’s fucked across the board in NRW.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#389

Post by Tainnor »

whalesalad wrote: post #170
nicbou wrote: post #114

I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…

What are the redeeming qualities of Germany?

A country that is incredibly rich in historical significance (both good and bad), cultural traditions, art (historical and modern), regional variety and nature. Cities are walkable, public transport is mostly decent (it's perfectly fine to live without a car if you're in the city), crime is low, poverty is low, the economy has been tanking a bit recently, but has traditionally been doing well.

In terms of mentality, Bavarians are very different from Rhinelanders who are very different from East Germans. Berlin is a bubble in and of itself and can't really be compared to the rest. In general, Germans tend to take comfort in clear rules and structure, and are used to a certain kind of cutting through bullshit, both of which may be a good or a bad thing. I'll also add that, to my knowledge, no other country has reflected its own role in history as deeply and critically as Germany has, which to me comes as a bonus even when there is a tendency to overcorrect.

Food is IMHO not great (except Käsespatzle), but beer is some of the best in the world.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#390

Post by niemandhier »

mdekkers wrote: post #386
niemandhier wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sympathy for your troubles, but please keep in mind: Everybody is processing Ukranians and Arabs. The system was never meant for such a rapid influx of people. The people working on immigration are not lazy or unmotivated, they are exhausted.

> Everybody is processing Ukranians and Arabs. That’s nonsense. The Ukrainians go through an expedited process. Before the war we put in an application for my spouse - 3rd party national spouse of an EU citizen process - we applied pretty much the day after we arrived and a few days before we left the country to live elsewhere (2 1/2 years later) we got a letter that they are considering giving her an appointment. Th…

It’s the same people that get allocated tasks generated in those processes. They even get shifted between departments.

It does not really help to have separate queues if those are served by the same worker.

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