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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

eidel.io

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, it's par for the course for immigration in most countries I ever heard of. On the other hand, anyone who heard of consistently nice immigration procedure for normal people (not Messi) should chime in. From a incentive strucutre POV, they lose nothing from false positives (denying entry to someone who would have been fine) as candidates will probably try again anyway, and no one will come after them…

Other countries that see immigration as an opportunity have systems that are far far superior to that of Germany. In Germany it's often not clear what status a process is in and no way to get updates. There often is no web portal or anything like that, it's nuts. For instance you submit an application for the retention of your German passport and then basically wait 2+ years for the answer to come back. No one answer…

Yes, the country needs to be both competent and strongly willing to court new comers and permanent residents in the first place.

On your experience, it really feels like a PITA. It won't help, but Japan and France are basically the same. You'll see procedures listed as typically taking 2~3 months, check back every now and then, and low and behold a year and half later you have absolutely no idea of what's going on, if your submission has been forgotten or is contentious. There's no recourse as long as you haven't been refused, so it's limbo until something happens.

People are right to bitch about these lengthy and utterly frustrating procedures, I just don't see a way out of it short of being rich, famous or finding a loophole that lets you force a government agency do something in a timely manner without getting a target on your back.

To note, France had much progress in the last decades, in that bullshit requirements were made illegal a few years ago. At least you can check everything needed on an official site and not be subjected to petty additional requirements when dealing with the local entity (yes, that was a thing, probably to make it extra hard for specific portions of the population to properly file procedures)

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#322

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(rants) yep, you are German alright!

In certain parts of Germany the German equivalent of "You really can't complain" is the highest form of praise.

The sentence "You really can't complain" is a complain itself.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a USA perspective, I find that usually when a bureaucratic process is hopelessly broken, it is because a small portion of the population actively hates the people that would benefit from the process and want to harm them. However they cannot legally or popularly discriminate against them so instead they destroy the processes that benefit the hated group. Do you get that impression where you are too?

If foreigners are in of the hated groups, my personally lived experience serves a counter point. During my naturalization I was caught by surprise by how quickly my application had been handled. The agent giving me the exam winked and said: "it's election season". Whatever that means.

Are you highly educated?

My father has only a certificate and no degree or anything like that.

It took him 20 years to get citizenship. We came 3 years after he come here and we all became citizens together.

My friends whose parents were doctors or had masters degree would get their GC and citizenships in like 5 years.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#324
post #276

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Africa and Asia are pretty easy, you just pay a bribe

Could you elaborate on this? I had a friend who joked about paying a bribe in Japan or Taiwan, do you think it would work there?

No

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. I have been living here for 8 years, and recently applied for a permanent settlement permit. My application went into a blackhole for more than 4 months, while my existing permit expired, essentially making me a prisoner here (I can stay and work in Germany but if I travel internationally, I won't be allowed entry back). Meanwhile, my applications for a temporary travel permit were unanswered for…

Not saying Germany is slow, but that is one area where US is far behind. 21 Months - This is the current processing time for a green card after you have sent in all the paperwork to the USCIS for processing. During that time, you get no updates and of-course if you leave the country without AP, your application is considered to be abandoned. https://imgur.com/a/t8rYOjv

Some of the US citizen-facing services are very backlogged too. For example, it's around 18 months to get a response when you apply for the US-Canada travel fast lane ("NEXUS").

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#326

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I can confirm that moving out into the bacon belt of Brandenburg drastically improved the quality of my public services interactions (as an immigrant). Getting an anmeldung done didn't require a 3 hour ordeal and the local Ausländerbehörde answers their emails. My favorite Berlin anecdote is when my wife (then girlfriend) and I first arrived in Germany, she was unemployed for the better part of a year as no-one would…

> My favorite Berlin anecdote is when my wife (then girlfriend) and I first arrived in Germany, she was unemployed for the better part of a year as no-one would give her a chance. She actually got quite depressed about it, and reached out about state sponsored integration courses as the language lessons she was taking were expensive and she wanted to do something more holistic. The authorities told her in no uncertai…

Lol no. German directness like most other things is a myth. It only shows itself often enough because people who "show" that directness are just rude and can get away with it. I have now had multiple people in power being extremely indirect about things that would make their position weak.

In rest of the world, the behavior of being "direct" only when there's no negative consequence is just called being a jerk.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#327
post #193

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To your counterexamples: if you move to the US or the UK for a job, you don't really suffer directly from Brexit or healthcare being tied to your unemployment. Sure, these could make things worse in certain cases (let's say you get laid off while in the US and end up having to get your own healthcare for a while). The thing with bureaucracy is that it's part of normal life, there's no way around it. You can assume th…

I’m a full time software developer, the lead programmer actually, but I don’t have health care. I have important unfilled prescriptions because of lack of money. So how exactly does a lack of health care not affect people?

    > I don’t have health care
Are you based in the US? How is this possible? I thought it is a requirement to have healthcare now.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#328
post #189
post #129

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I don't think that it is overdone. It's bad everywhere, and it's much worse in Berlin. If you've experienced anything like a modern bureaucracy, Germany is infuriatingly backwards. The article is painfully accurate down to the minute detail.

As bad as Germany is, it is better than average. Eastern Europe is harder, and Asia borders on impossible. Africa is literally impossible.

    > Eastern Europe is harder
Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania? I doubt it.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#329
post #171

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Mine too! My residence permit expired in February, and my appointment is in July. I expect to have a valid residence title again by end of August. Mind you, I applied in December. I will not be able to travel out of the country for most of the summer as I wouldn't be allowed to reenter. They refused multiple times to issue the temporary permit that I'm legally entitled to. I'm having a lawyer ask again, this time wit…

I'll one up you and say that it's so broken, there are lots of people that basically live on ranges of exceptions. In my case, I was told I was not eligible for the visa I needed but when I spoke to a migration consultant who knew the process, they managed to get it done. I was pretty shocked as this wink, wink, nod, nod style system is not something I expected from this country.

Yes, bureaucrats can act as gatekeepers for things that you are legally entitled to, and create various bureaucratic hurdles. It's usually mere thoroughness, sometimes incompetence, and if you cross them, vindictiveness.

I was told more than once by very knowledgeable people that if you anger a case worker, they can and will make your life hard by nitpicking every little detail and asking for as many documents as they can.

This happens for example if you get angry at their incompetence, or if you sue them for inaction (although in Berlin they see it as normal business by now).

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#330
post #30

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In Brazil notaries get a cut of real estate deed transfers, and the position was hereditary until the 1990s.

In Italy, getting something notarized costs $1-2k. As far as I know, the position is still passed down from parents to children.

Are there other officially hereditary jobs still out there?
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