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Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

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Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#91
post #32

Rough read. It's hard for me to even imagine such a state of mind, and the suffering one experiences. Somehow the fact that the euthanization takes place in your own home gives me the creeps. I really wonder what drives people to work in this space? In the case of pets or animals being put down it's a vet that does the deed, is it doctors in this case? Also, her therapist claiming that "There’s nothing more we can do…

> Also, her therapist claiming that "There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better" sounds like an enormous red flag for me. Some authority should take a long hard look at a professional therapist speaking like that, especially considering the proximity/possibility of human euthanasia, or just suicide in general.

I don't think this is a red flag. I don't see anything wrong with a therapist speaking like that because this statement is often made after years of working with the patient and not after the first few hours of therapy. In my time I worked in a psychiatric ward we had many patients who were considered "austherapiert", i.e. the treatments they have undergone over the years have not worked. In some cases, we are talking about patients who have been in and out of the psychiatry ward on a regular basis for over 20 years undergoing different treatments without their condition improving. People who have been suffering from their illness for decades, and we're not just talking about depression, but also illnesses such as schizophrenia, BPD, bipolar personality disorder, dementia, etc. Many of these patients take medication to manage the symptoms of their illness, but the side effects are often perceived as worse than the actual illness. And even with medication, a normal life is often no longer possible. People lose their jobs, their family, their friends - their whole life because of their mental illness. It's not only about the internal suffering, but also that their life irretrievably breaks apart and due to the symptoms of the illness building a new life may be not possible.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#92
post #66

This article is disingenuous by only referring to expert opinion from a Christian university, which is obviously against euthanasia. Experts from other universities would provide a more nuanced view on the subject. Furthermore when the article discusses an increase in numbers, they don't mention that 60% of euthanasia is performed for individuals who suffer from late stage cancer. Most others are generally very old,…

Fundamentally this is not different at all from suicide. Every physically healthy and conscious person is capable of committing it if they were strongly want to. So why would we as a society want to make it more acceptable and encourage people to see it as a perfectly viable option? Also where do we a draw a line? If we're talking about terminally ill patients it's usually fairly clear. Surely there are many mentally…

The Netherlands have drawn their line, have a look at their laws [1]. This includes a procedure where multiple medical doctors have to agree to grant someone a death with dignity. I prefer this over unbearable suffering.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_the_Netherlands

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#93
post #5

I am terrified of the thought of legally killing people and this article has made me feel quite odd, even slightly sick I would say. My gut just screams at me: this is wrong. And I cannot help. The rational arguments do not convince me at all. Call me old fashioned or whatever but this is how I feel about it, and since there is an article about this I imagine that there might be certain interest in this being out of…

There's quite a difference between actually killing somebody and allowing them to kill themselves in a painless/peaceful manner - e.g. providing them access to drugs/devices that they have to choose to use themselves.

And that difference is "semantics".

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For years, I thought I'd tried everything. I was surrounded by people saying "you can't run for your problems." I'm incredibly glad I decided to ignore them as a hail mary and I'm sure as shit glad I wasn't posting here. I'd be dead with people calling me brave and saying I died with dignity. Glad I lived to instead be shamed for encouraging people to explore other options before taking a final solution. It's impossi…

I'm very happy you're happy :-) Unfortunately this is not the case for a very small minority of individuals who suffer without a cure. I prefer these people to go through their process with dignity, than to go for the other option.

[flagged]

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer This is absolutely not a universally held belief.

Of course not - no belief is. My point was that it is drastically easier to believe that euthanasia for cancer patients is okay, than for depression sufferers.

So then why did you call it a "no-brainer"?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#96
post #70
post #32

Rough read. It's hard for me to even imagine such a state of mind, and the suffering one experiences. Somehow the fact that the euthanization takes place in your own home gives me the creeps. I really wonder what drives people to work in this space? In the case of pets or animals being put down it's a vet that does the deed, is it doctors in this case? Also, her therapist claiming that "There’s nothing more we can do…

> Somehow the fact that the euthanization takes place in your own home gives me the creeps. If I was about to die I'd much rather die in the comfort of my own home than any other place, a hospital is not a cozy place; a clinic wouldn't be either, it's still a foreign place with nothing of your life or about you around. I'd much rather die in a place I know, that I was part of creating and makes me feel comfortable in…

What if the panel of experts, therapists, etc. are wrong?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#97
post #66

This article is disingenuous by only referring to expert opinion from a Christian university, which is obviously against euthanasia. Experts from other universities would provide a more nuanced view on the subject. Furthermore when the article discusses an increase in numbers, they don't mention that 60% of euthanasia is performed for individuals who suffer from late stage cancer. Most others are generally very old,…

Fundamentally this is not different at all from suicide. Every physically healthy and conscious person is capable of committing it if they were strongly want to. So why would we as a society want to make it more acceptable and encourage people to see it as a perfectly viable option? Also where do we a draw a line? If we're talking about terminally ill patients it's usually fairly clear. Surely there are many mentally…

Given the number of failed suicide attempts, not everyone is capable of committing it successfully.

And they're often forced to use brutal methods that some unfortunate soul then has to discover or clean up (e.g. firearms, jumping, or standing in front of a train)

Giving the long-term-suffering an option of a peaceful and painless way out seems much more compassionate. It just needs the right level of safeguards to stop people doing it impulsively. A 3-6 month 'cooling off period' between booking the appointment and going through with it would likely solve most of the problems (although may be too long if somebody is in severe pain, e.g. late-stage cancer. But separate rules could be used for those who clearly have terminal illnesses)

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your cancer went into remission, so everybody's cancer must also be curable?

[flagged]

The other extreme end of it though, is that we're morally obligated to force everyone into treatment, whether it helps or not.

Cancer? Forced treatment. Gay? Forced treatment. Left-handed? Forced treatment. It's for your own good so you don't deserve a choice.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#99
post #32

Rough read. It's hard for me to even imagine such a state of mind, and the suffering one experiences. Somehow the fact that the euthanization takes place in your own home gives me the creeps. I really wonder what drives people to work in this space? In the case of pets or animals being put down it's a vet that does the deed, is it doctors in this case? Also, her therapist claiming that "There’s nothing more we can do…

[dead]

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#100
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consent seems like a sufficient limiting principle.

Not to me it doesn't. For example, here's the story of a disabled Canadian man who "consented" to euthanasia because he thought it was his only alternative to homelessness: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canada-eut... In this case he withdrew his "consent" after strangers helped him out financially, but I'm sure there are other cases that didn't end so luckily. As suicide gets normalised you can ex…

Do you have any suggestions of a limiting principle, then, or do you just think suicide should never be an available service others can offer and must always be done by oneself?
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