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Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

themirror.com

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Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#61

Post by tmelm »

sneak wrote: post #21
bacro wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with that when the problem is irreversible and will cause unending pain for the person. However, this case does not seem like it. If she had like Parkinson or Alzheimer then I would understand but depression? There are very good anti-depressants that help go through if she cannot find another way to cope. Also, there might be something physically wrong that doctors might have overlooked which causes her depre…

You should always be free to destroy yourself absent any medical reason or justification. It is a personal decision and there is no reason anyone should be required to explain or justify it. We don’t require a medical reason to enhance or build our bodies, we don’t need one to damage or destroy them. I’m already allowed to eat fried foods 10 times a day and chainsmoke and do it slowly and painfully; if that is legal…

This makes sense to some extent (terminal illness or such), but one can argue as someone did above that if you're willing to make the permanent decision to "destroy" yourself, are you sane enough to legally make decision? Are you for sure not under temporary delusion, distress, or other threat? You can always "legally" "destroy" yourself through suicide, but if you want to involve a medical professional it seems very reasonable that you have the mental clarity to make the decision.

Should it be illegal for the doctor to deny me an amputation that I ask for? After all, I should be "free to destroy myself" absent any justification?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#62

Post by antonp »

6 year old article in dutch [1] about Zoraya (the woman in question) already back then planning her premature death:

> She claims the right to a dignified ending: euthanasia. "You can buy a rope, you climb up an apartment and a train also runs. But why is it made so difficult for us? Why do you have to be 75 before you have a completed life? Say that maybe we can get better? That's what you say not even against a cancer patient who has completed treatment."

Rough read. Jesus.

[1] https://www.tubantia.nl/oldenzaal/zonder-juiste-medicijnen-w...

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#63

Post by david-gpu »

How can she be "physically healthy" if she has depression? What is causing the depression, if not a malady of her physical body, such as her brain? It's an organ and it can be irreparably damaged, just like a kidney.

"But what if she gets better?", some say. What if she doesn't? What if there is no cure in her case? You may have gotten over a case of depression yourself, just like some people have recovered from a cancer. Does that mean that all cancers patients will eventually heal? So what makes you think that depression is any different?

Either way, if an adult is unwilling to live, they should be allowed to end their lives with dignity. Your desire to not go through with it yourself is not sufficient to deny it to others. We are all adults and can make our own decisions.

May the earth be light upon her.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#64

Post by bheadmaster »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #57
bheadmaster wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is yet another case of people being skeptical about the very existence of mental illness. Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer, but for incurable depression sufferers? Well, their bodies are healthy. What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Maybe they're just faking it? They should probably be more grateful for the gifts they've received from God, and they'll be happy. Maybe t…

>> What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Nonsense - you clearly never had somebody close to you suffer from it. My daughter suffers from depression - it is not a state of mind or a funk you can snap out of.

You have misunderstood.

That sentence is not a reflection of my opinion - my whole second paragraph was a mock example of how mental illness skeptics think about depression.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#65

Post by arkey »

phantomathkg wrote: post #47
iagooar wrote: post #5

I am terrified of the thought of legally killing people and this article has made me feel quite odd, even slightly sick I would say. My gut just screams at me: this is wrong. And I cannot help. The rational arguments do not convince me at all. Call me old fashioned or whatever but this is how I feel about it, and since there is an article about this I imagine that there might be certain interest in this being out of…

I feel sorry for her decision as well, but this is not wrong. Think about it for the moment. - She can schedule an euthanasia. - She can throw herself in front of a train. - She can hang herself somewhere. - Many many other "traditional" way. The difference here is, if she schedule euthanasia, the people provide the service will have to finish everything up for her, and they should be less traumatise compare to the t…

So we should go about enabling the "better" committing of wrong acts?

A killer set on killing will kill anyway, so maybe we could pair them up and have both happy?

The "they will do it anyway" argument is as absurd as it is dangerous.

Heh, it's not like it backfired in the past at all, is it?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#66

Post by Wytwwww »

deugtniet wrote: post #37

This article is disingenuous by only referring to expert opinion from a Christian university, which is obviously against euthanasia. Experts from other universities would provide a more nuanced view on the subject. Furthermore when the article discusses an increase in numbers, they don't mention that 60% of euthanasia is performed for individuals who suffer from late stage cancer. Most others are generally very old,…

Fundamentally this is not different at all from suicide. Every physically healthy and conscious person is capable of committing it if they were strongly want to. So why would we as a society want to make it more acceptable and encourage people to see it as a perfectly viable option?

Also where do we a draw a line? If we're talking about terminally ill patients it's usually fairly clear. Surely there are many mentally ill (suffering from severe depression etc. not intellectual disability) people who are incapable of rational reasoning (in general or under specific circumstances) so do we end up with having death panels determining who is allowed to kill themselves and who is not?

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#67

Post by david-gpu »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #57
bheadmaster wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is yet another case of people being skeptical about the very existence of mental illness. Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer, but for incurable depression sufferers? Well, their bodies are healthy. What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Maybe they're just faking it? They should probably be more grateful for the gifts they've received from God, and they'll be happy. Maybe t…

>> What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Nonsense - you clearly never had somebody close to you suffer from it. My daughter suffers from depression - it is not a state of mind or a funk you can snap out of.

Try re-reading the comment you replied to. It's mocking common dismissals of depression. They agree with you.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#68

Post by Mashimo »

tmelm wrote: post #32

Rough read. It's hard for me to even imagine such a state of mind, and the suffering one experiences. Somehow the fact that the euthanization takes place in your own home gives me the creeps. I really wonder what drives people to work in this space? In the case of pets or animals being put down it's a vet that does the deed, is it doctors in this case? Also, her therapist claiming that "There’s nothing more we can do…

I don't want you to persuade you regarding euthanasia, but please, please don't make decisions based on "articles" from The Mirror. At least not before you tripple check the sources.

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#69

Post by Wytwwww »

rschiavone wrote: post #39
iagooar wrote: post #5

I am terrified of the thought of legally killing people and this article has made me feel quite odd, even slightly sick I would say. My gut just screams at me: this is wrong. And I cannot help. The rational arguments do not convince me at all. Call me old fashioned or whatever but this is how I feel about it, and since there is an article about this I imagine that there might be certain interest in this being out of…

If a person has tried every other option and there is still no end to their pain, either physical or psychological, they would sooner or later try to end their life anyway. It is in the best interest of everybody to offer assisted suicide at a set time and date instead of taking the matter into their own hands and leaving family, friends and first responders with the trauma of discovering a body.

> If a person has tried every other option and there is still no end to their pain

Except they certainly haven't, both because of very limited resources and became they are probably in no condition to figure what they could or should try themselves and are dependent on doctors, family members and other people (who also might have only very limited capacity to help her)

Re: Physically healthy 28-year-old woman schedules euthanasia due to depression

#70

Post by piva00 »

tmelm wrote: post #32

Rough read. It's hard for me to even imagine such a state of mind, and the suffering one experiences. Somehow the fact that the euthanization takes place in your own home gives me the creeps. I really wonder what drives people to work in this space? In the case of pets or animals being put down it's a vet that does the deed, is it doctors in this case? Also, her therapist claiming that "There’s nothing more we can do…

> Somehow the fact that the euthanization takes place in your own home gives me the creeps.

If I was about to die I'd much rather die in the comfort of my own home than any other place, a hospital is not a cozy place; a clinic wouldn't be either, it's still a foreign place with nothing of your life or about you around. I'd much rather die in a place I know, that I was part of creating and makes me feel comfortable in it than any other place.

> I can't believe we made suicide a legal depression cure before when there's been so much talk about shrooms/acid and such perhaps being helpful.

This is absurd, you're trying to decide for someone else how they should approach their own suffering, why don't let the sufferer take control? It's not up to you to decide, at all, and it's not a split-second decision, to be euthanised one has to go through consultations with professionals which might not grant it, if a panel of experts decided the person has the right to decide to kill themselves who are you to say otherwise?

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