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'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

972mag.com

271–280 of 1001 posts

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#271

Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Attacks on such targets were typically carried out using unguided munitions known as “dumb bombs”, the sources said, destroying entire homes and killing all their occupants. The world should not forget this.

"Our system is 90% accurate if you don't count the 15-20 innocent people taken out for each hit". I know they're measuring the accuracy of target identification but that's laughable when used in this context.

For 100 targets, 90 are 'correct', plus 20x civs per-target is 90/2100 or 4% real accuracy.

Say you use a model that's only 50% accurate and limit yourself to 10 civs per-target, you're at 50/1100 or 4.5% accuracy!

I guess my point is that no self-respecting datascient would release a 50% accurate model, let alone one used to make life or death decisions and yet, in the application of this model, decisions made by humans about its use has made it no better than doing exactly that.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#272

Accepting technological barbarism is a choice. Among engineers there should be a broad refusal to work on such systems and a blacklist for those who do.

It sure would be nice if this industry had the tiniest shred of collective consciousness and realized our capacity to exert some level of control over what gets built and what doesn't.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#273

HN has a serious problem if factual technology stories cannot exist here because some people don't like the truth. This should be advertised. The true price of AI is people using computers to make decisions no decent person would. It's not a feature, it's a war crime.

I'm not sure why its such a shock to many to see the censorship on HN. This isn't a public square.

We are privy to the whims of whatever political views of those that aligned/run/manage/stake in YC and their policies and values.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#274
post #270

The Guardian has this story on the front page also, they were given details about it pre-publishing, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai... And, personally, I think that stories like this are of public interest - while I won’t ask for it directly, I hope the flag is removed and the discussion can happen.

guardian references 972 as source for report. it's not like it's "the guardian" article

Yes, that's why we merged those threads into this one. From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html: Submitters: "Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Readers might still find it helpful to read both pieces, of course.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is very convenient to criticize it when you're not in it Israel 'criticised' Hamas for their monstrous attack six months ago, started a war over it. Perhaps you're saying Israel should have just accepted it? You know, perhaps this whole mess Israel is now involved in is a product of its own behaviour, and killing of loads more Palestinians is not likely to bring peace but further hate and evil.

3 downvotes in 16 minutes, well I never! (but oddly no other response)

[deleted]

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#278

Upsetting how quickly the other thread was flagged and downranked.

This is a typical phenomenon when a topic is divisive, and the Israel/Gaza topic is one of the most divisive.

Edit: We sometimes turn off flags when an article contains significant new information and also has at least some chance of providing a substantive basis for discussion. I haven't read the current article yet but it seems like a reasonable candidate for this, so I turned off the flags.

For anyone who wants more information about how we approach doing that, in the context of the current topic, here are some past explanations:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39618973 (March 2024)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435324 (Feb 2024)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435024 (Feb 2024)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237176 (Feb 2024)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38947003 (Jan 2024)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38749162 (Dec 2023)

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#279
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's a very complicated situation. Genocide seems like a bit a stretch, but it is hard to tell. I would like to think that Israel is incapable of genocide, but at the very least it's clear they don't mind killing thousands of innocent people. Israel has done some truly inexcusable, horrific things. I do sympathize with Israel. Israel is surrounded by countries that would like to see it wiped off of the map. Hamas has…

> Israel is surrounded by countries that would like to see it wiped off of the map

Israel is occupying territories from 3 countries of those. Killing thousands. Initiated attacks in the past to conquer lands from another one (Egypt Sinai) and still occupying Palestinian lands (even if count 1967 borders) where there are 800k settlers/colonizers in west bank alone. And regularly bomb and kill civilians in Syria, Lebanon and Palestine. It has WMD (remember the lie that Iraq get invaded under this claim because that is dangerous for the region)

Painting the problem on the other sides while the aggressor is very obvious is a dishonest take at best.

If you want your neighbors to even recognize and sympathize with your cause then you don't kill their children and take their lands. And then claim self-defense.

Most of isreali society origins are from Europe. They are victims of Europe refusing and kicking them outside. That doesn't make them victims in general.

The argument that the lands can be given back if there is a peace and recognition is bullshit. Israel have clear intend in annexation and the US is fine ans even recognized Golan heights as Israeli land. They settle their people in the occupying land. There is even companies and cabinet members discussing building new settlements in gaza after ethnically cleansing the Palestinians.

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