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Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

vitalik.eth.limo

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Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#411

Post by evantbyrne »

joshspankit wrote: post #336
evantbyrne wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capital gains tax is not a technical issue per se. People also don't buy coffee with wire transfers, but nobody says wire transfers are a failure. btc/eth are better at doing what wire transfers were designed to do. The point is the tech is much better than people who have been sleeping on crypto seem to realize

Something that has likely slowed down adoption: Current payment methods (CC, debit, tap, chip, etc) artificially appear faster than they are. When someone taps, 99% of the time the payment processor is not waiting for the funds. It’s all trust and calculations of acceptable risk (that’s why the tap limit). Crypto can adopt that approach as well. Yes, CCs/debit went through a period (as did cheques) where that trust w…

Yup. eth transactions could happen in the time it takes to run a credit card if you wait for just a couple confirmations, which should be acceptable risk for point of sale. Bitcoin has lightning.

As to your last point: credit card fraud is still rampant and hardly anyone accepts checks outside of contractual b2b transactions. The issues with those technologies are technical in nature. Sending a crypto transaction doesn't allow someone to fraudulently charge your account like those technologies do. Whether chargebacks should even exist in a secure transaction system by default is debatable. I personally don't think that kangaroo court service is worth the fraud + global ~3% fees. Think about all the chargebacks you've made in your life that weren't related to credit cards just being insecure. I'm certain they are not worth 3% of your total spending.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#412

Post by rglullis »

wslh wrote: post #408
rglullis wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also know that Solana had frequent outages and issues where they could resolve their transaction sequence, because their hardware and connectivity requirements make it prohibitive for "casual enthusiasts" to run a node. And if "initial investors are also contributors", then you are just parroting the "Ethereum is pre-mined" from Bitcoiners, and we can safely end the discussion here.

Again you are not following the argument, you cherry picked Solana, Algorand didn't have any issue. Follow logical argumentation please...

I didn't mention Algorand because its overall network is a blip compared with Ethereum and Solana in any metric, and it can barely be considered as Battle-Tester in a "real world" scenario.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#413

Post by willmadden »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #389
willmadden wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whitepaper's plan wasn't, but that's not true at all for Bitcoin itself. Satoshi included OP_RETURN which allowed smart contracts - mastercoin being the first L2 (on Bitcoin). He also wanted to increase the blocksize to allow scaling. Vitalik started Ethereum because the "core devs" (bank incumbent funded usurpers) refused to cooperate. This is also the reason the original maintainers like Gavin and Mike Hearn sp…

> Vitalik started Ethereum because the "core devs" (bank incumbent funded usurpers) refused to cooperate I agree with everything about the bastardization of Bitcoin, but I don't think this is why Vitalik created Ethereum

It is. He saw how badly the "core developers" were treating counterparty.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7umljb/vitalik_buterin...

https://www.reddit.com/r/decred/comments/6wxueo/comment/dmce...

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#414

Post by albrewer »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #36

All this crpyto technology is fascinating. But is it used for anything? I asked this in an Ask HN today, but got no answer so far: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39852389 It looks like not a single HN reader is using blockchain technology for anything. If nobody is using blockchain technology outside of blockchain projects, what are the reasons we expect that some day we will? What could be a near term use case…

If anything will get us out of this ad-ridden hellhole of the centralized internet, I think it'll be cryptocurrency that allows users to transfer tiny amounts of money to a site instead of an ad platform paying the site fractions of a cent for my view.

Like if all I need to do is transfer $0.00001 to the site for my view and it's guaranteed to be free from ads or data hoarding, sign me tf up.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#415

Post by willmadden »

rglullis wrote: post #319
willmadden wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whitepaper's plan wasn't, but that's not true at all for Bitcoin itself. Satoshi included OP_RETURN which allowed smart contracts - mastercoin being the first L2 (on Bitcoin). He also wanted to increase the blocksize to allow scaling. Vitalik started Ethereum because the "core devs" (bank incumbent funded usurpers) refused to cooperate. This is also the reason the original maintainers like Gavin and Mike Hearn sp…

> original maintainers like Gavin and Mike Hearn split off to Bitcoin Cash and other alt-coins. So what developments in Bitcoin Cash have been made in that direction? Why is is that all of the "ideological" forks of Bitcoin do nothing but tweak some parameter size in the network settings and do not go beyond that?

The development roadmap for these cryptocurrencies are documented and available with an internet search...

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#416

Post by willmadden »

midmagico wrote: post #352
willmadden wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whitepaper's plan wasn't, but that's not true at all for Bitcoin itself. Satoshi included OP_RETURN which allowed smart contracts - mastercoin being the first L2 (on Bitcoin). He also wanted to increase the blocksize to allow scaling. Vitalik started Ethereum because the "core devs" (bank incumbent funded usurpers) refused to cooperate. This is also the reason the original maintainers like Gavin and Mike Hearn sp…

This is all pretty much boring, tired lies that altcoin profiteers like to trot out apparently assuming nobody is still around who is interested in contradicting them. The purpose of OP_RETURN was to end the script. It was not designed for rando garbage overlays that are worthless; Satoshi's views on scaling were ambiguous—rather than say it "should" he was instead correcting people who thought you could break consen…

This is the same tired misinformation you are spreading from 2017+ and I will prove it with primary sources.

Also, why are the comments on your account 90% calling other people liars about cryptocurrency?

Satoshi's views on scaling were NOT ambiguous. He planned to increase the blocksize and have users switch to SPV wallets. Read section 8 of the Bitcoin white paper:

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Also, direct Satoshi quote from bitcointalk about increasing the blocksize and hard forking to do it:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1347.msg15366#msg153...

"It can be phased in, like:

if (blocknumber > 115000) maxblocksize = largerlimit

It can start being in versions way ahead, so by the time it reaches that block number and goes into effect, the older versions that don't have it are already obsolete.

When we're near the cutoff block number, I can put an alert to old versions to make sure they know they have to upgrade."

Regarding OP_RETURN, both mastercoin and counterparty existed because of OP_RETURN, so no, it's not "garbage". It's a data field that can be used to link L2's to the Bitcoin blockchain by embedding them in transactions. These projects, factom, and countless others that built off of OP_RETURN had to abandon Bitcoin for other chains because of the core developers' gatekeeping.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#417

Post by shuntress »

evantbyrne wrote: post #249
shuntress wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could maybe call it a technical issue or an issue of adoption but the fact is that no one is scanning Monero wallet QR codes to buy coffee.

Capital gains tax is not a technical issue per se. People also don't buy coffee with wire transfers, but nobody says wire transfers are a failure. btc/eth are better at doing what wire transfers were designed to do. The point is the tech is much better than people who have been sleeping on crypto seem to realize

Wire Transfers are a logistic service you may have someone perform for you in exchange for cash.

Half the point of a digital cash is that you never need a wire transfer because you can just exchange the digital cash directly. Effectively the same as handing someone an envelope full of physical cash.

The currency exchange step needed to convert that BTC back into real money is probably more annoying than just dealing with a wire transfer. And that is essentially my point. If you send someone USD, they can use that directly to pay for expenses like food or rent. If you send someone BTC, they need to first convert that into a real currency before they can use it. That is what I am referencing when I say "The 'Killer App' for a cryptocurrency would be the ability to use it as a currency".

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#418

Post by kemotep »

rglullis wrote: post #405
kemotep wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But does the layer 2 coin have a stable exchange rate with the layer 1 coin? And again, we are talking about just to pay to play the game. Today an arcade that uses dollars may charge you 50 cents for a life. Or the equivalent in tokens (layer 2). If suddenly the value of 50 cents could pay for 10 lives, do I need to now charge customers more tokens to play? How do I plan long term with hiring or my utilities if the…

Why not just use a stable currency to price your "game token"? Once you are out of the base layer, there is no need to tie any transaction costs to the base layer token. So, in your example, the game company could easily just say "pay us X amount of dollars however you want, and you will receive the exact same amount on the layer-2 to play".

I feel like we are right back to why even bother using cryptocurrency for this if the fundamentals of it aren’t stable enough for day to day transactions.

My example was talking about using a layer 2 token. Now you’re telling me that it’s simple just use a completely different currency to buy tokens?

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#419

Post by kemotep »

rglullis wrote: post #396
kemotep wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the argument is that the grandparent comment is making is that you should build your application on the ethereum network, eth is the “oil” of this machine, and the more people who use it the higher the value of eth is. So if I make a game, or an uber for dog walkers, or a global shipping service, or some SaaS app on the ethereum blockchain, then my customers will have to pay more or less (or my costs will be high…

> or a global shipping service, or some SaaS app on the ethereum blockchain, then my customers will have to pay more or less (or my costs will be higher or lower) depending on how active the network is. Only if you want to have these applications fully running on the base layer, which is frankly nonsense. To give you one practical example: Storj can provide a object storage service at AWS scale, and its pricing has n…

Does Storj use a blockchain at all? It just looks like cloud storage, denominated in dollars.

Re: Ethereum has blobs. Where do we go from here?

#420

Post by hanniabu »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #152
bigyikes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvotes and downvotes on Hacker News. It’s a joke with some truth.

It's confusing because we went from "decentralized" meaning "an inverted hierarchy" to "decentralized" meaning "a hierarchy seen from the other direction".

Can you expand on that? What do you mean by from the other direction?
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