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Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

golem.ph.utexas.edu

51–60 of 186 posts

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice to all academics in STEM is, just write the main body of the paper exactly as how the orthodoxy demands. Use the style needed to get the paper accepted. Then, add a supplementary or appendix of the paper that is written for the human graduate student. Put in worked out examples, further details on the proof. Most times, it will just get through, and you will have accomplished your goal. If the journal deman…

This is good advice, but for a very different problem. 1. The problem in math is not that the way the "orthodoxy" insists on presenting things in a suboptimal way, but that if the reviewers find a good explanation of your result, they'll recommend that you publish in a lower-ranked venue than your result would ordinarily merit (at least unless you solved a famous problem). So researchers are incentivized to make the…

> if the reviewers find a good explanation of your result, they'll recommend that you publish in a lower-ranked venue than your result would ordinarily merit (at least unless you solved a famous problem).

Even if you solve a well known problem. I gave a talk once where I did so as a very junior student. During the Q&A a very well known senior person got up and basically asked me what's the point and this is all trivial anyway. Thankfully I remembered the exact place where the founder of the entire field had said just recently this is one of the hardest problems in the space and the problem he had hoped to maybe one day get to when he started the entire enterprise. The audience laughed and the guy apologized.

But I learned my lesson. Talks and papers need a little magic. For some people you can't just solve a cool problem, they need to think that they couldn't have done so and that they don't quite get how you did it. I now include something in every talk that I don't expect the audience to get just so what I'm doing seems "hard" to people who think this way.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice to all academics in STEM is, just write the main body of the paper exactly as how the orthodoxy demands. Use the style needed to get the paper accepted. Then, add a supplementary or appendix of the paper that is written for the human graduate student. Put in worked out examples, further details on the proof. Most times, it will just get through, and you will have accomplished your goal. If the journal deman…

This is good advice, but for a very different problem. 1. The problem in math is not that the way the "orthodoxy" insists on presenting things in a suboptimal way, but that if the reviewers find a good explanation of your result, they'll recommend that you publish in a lower-ranked venue than your result would ordinarily merit (at least unless you solved a famous problem). So researchers are incentivized to make the…

I've always found math is taught in the most daft, bland, vapid, worthless ways imaginable and I've thought it had to do with those who do the teaching: The teachers and textbooks.

But reading this comment chain, am I correct to understand that this problem stems from the very essence of math itself? The people who live and breathe math just fucking hate sharing their passion with others?

What the hell.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#53
post #34

Some possible counterarguments: 1. Mathematics is a lot more abstract than it used to be. 2. Mathematics is a lot more specialised than it used to be. 3. Non-mathematical content is inaccessible to those who don't read English. 4. Space in academic journals is too precious to waste on inessential content. 5. The style is part of a universal mathematical culture so you should fit in. 6. There are many alternative plac…

> Space in academic journals is too precious to waste on inessential content

Not the biggest issue in maths - the arxiv version usually won't match the journal version 1:1

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#55
Some ight appreciate the following short paper, relatedly. A quote is extracted below.

https://uhra.herts.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/2299/5831/903260.p...

"We lecturers naturally worry about the content of our lectures rather than the emotions we express in giving them. As human beings, students respond immediately to the emotive charge, even if they do not understand the content. The lecturer may have tried to give a balanced account of the debate between X and Y, but his preference for Y shines through. When the students come to write the essay on the relative merits of X and Y, they know where to put their money. The lecturer might try to balance the lecture by suppressing his enthusiasm for Y, but this ‗objective‘ presentation will make a mystery of the whole exercise. The students will wonder why they have to sit through all this stuff about X and Y when even the lecturer does not seem to care much for either of them. The better strategy is for the lecturer to plunge into the works of X, reconstruct X‘s mental world and re-enact X‘s thoughts until he shares some of X‘s intellectual passions. We can be sure that X had intellectual passions, else we would not now have the works of X."

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#56
post #27
post #13

The same should be said for engineering design docs tbh

absolutely disagree. an engineering design document is about information retrieval, not education. It's not made to entertain or educate about new concepts, it's made to be terse and rigidly structured for the sake of aiding the work of the reader and to provide reliable information recall methods for those reading it. I don't want to know what 'problems are worth attacking' when reading a design document, I want to…

> It's not made to entertain or educate about new concepts, it's made to be terse and rigidly structured for the sake of aiding the work of the reader and to provide reliable information recall methods for those reading it.

That goes for math papers as well. Both needs to be understood by juniors, both are used by experts for lookup and work.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#57
I frequently have to read math/cryptography papers as part of my research, but I'm neither a mathematician nor a cryptographer, which makes things a bit of a slog.

I think this is mostly just down to me not being the target audience, but so many papers seem to be more of a "proof that the author understood this thing", rather than an attempt to actually convey that understanding.

It reminds me of when programmers needlessly optimize or "golf" their code - yes, very clever, but now I can't understand what it does.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#58
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you must be a using a wrong approach to searching for mathematics. In your case I would search for a script or book with title "Introduction to probabilify theory" or "Introduction to mathematical statistics". Then you skim through it to see if you can find an analysis of your problem. If not, you can hopefully find out what the right keywords are to then find a more advanced script or book for the specif…

That's what I tried to avoid in the first place :)

But that's the entry point. Well written textbooks, which discuss the right problem are invaluable. If you head straight to google scholar, you're going to have a bad time.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#59
The best math book I've ever read -- which I think can completely transform somebody's appreciation of math -- was William Dunham's "Journey Through Genius - The Great Theorems of Mathematics."

What this book did was place mathematics in human and historical context. It starts with Hippocrates' Quadrature of the Lune, then moves on to Euclid's proof of the Pythagorean theorem, and moves along through history all the way down to Euler and Cantor.

I've always thought that the book's format or method is the best way to teach mathematics in a general sense. It beats the rote practice of formulae out of context, and it simultaneously teaches the history of mathematics and science. I'm always gifting parents of school-age children copies of this book.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#60
post #34

Some possible counterarguments: 1. Mathematics is a lot more abstract than it used to be. 2. Mathematics is a lot more specialised than it used to be. 3. Non-mathematical content is inaccessible to those who don't read English. 4. Space in academic journals is too precious to waste on inessential content. 5. The style is part of a universal mathematical culture so you should fit in. 6. There are many alternative plac…

Regarding you last point: out of interest, what kind of venues were you thinking of? Be this personal blogs of said academics, just dumping it on a preprint server or actual ("formally published") publications?
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