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Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

golem.ph.utexas.edu

21–30 of 186 posts

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#21
Was initially expecting this to be more “elementary education” focused rather than academic math. Good article. As a non-academic, it is cool to see the idea of “what makes a good paper” explored. A lot of the concepts mentioned seem to hold up really well in theory but ultimately just seem like stylistic differences, to me. Academic writing can have an international audience and perhaps “just being technical” has advantages. That doesn’t change the point of the article, though.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#22

> Ideally the tricks I’m suggesting here will be almost invisible, affecting readers in a subliminal way Why would I want a math paper to be subliminally manipulating me? I feel like everyone has been watching too much YouTube/tiktok and is buying into the notion that clickbait isn't just a vicious feedback cycle destroying everyone's integrity.

Everything is always subliminally affecting you. It might as well do it in a helpful way.

> everything is always subliminally affecting you

Right, but certain methods are more effective than others. This paper is arguing and encouraging exactly how to manipulate more effectively.

> It might as well do it in a helpful way

Being more effective in teaching I agree is a good thing. But a math paper isn't for teaching, it's for showing a proof or making an argument. I just think we ought to set standards on academic research to remain as neutral as possible to let ideas flourish on merit rather than cunning tricks.

EDIT: I get that a career in academia requires all these games to get more citations. Looks at ML research, I feel like abstracts are written by used car salesman nowadays. So like, if you have to do it do it. But we ought to call it out from time to time.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#23
This really reminds me of a writing course I took called “Writing Stories for Science”. That’s where I first encountered the idea of story beats. The class seemed more focused on the natural sciences and story structures, so I got the impression this must be very difficult to apply to pure mathematical writing. Maybe it’s easier in applied mathematics where there’s a clearer reason that could be explained to a layperson.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#24

As somebody who works in a mathy subarea of computer science, oh man, I agree. My heart always falls when I need a result and it turns out the original paper is some terse typewritten notice from the 70s whose first sentence is a definition with a bunch of proper nouns and whose main theorem is given at the most general possible level with no applications at all. I have talked with math people about why this is, and…

In my experience, (c) is a very large part of it. At one point in my career, I decided to try writing good, accessible articles, which properly motivated definitions and well-explained arguments with plenty of hand-holding.

When I did that, a version of the derogatory sentence "The proofs are easy / non-technical." would appear in the reviews. Every. Single. Time. Of course, I have some independent confirmation that the proofs weren't easier than in any of my other work (e.g. my coauthors and I had to work just as hard to get them), but this led to having to resubmit them to less prestigious journals than the ones which normally published my work.

I gave up on this approach, and realize now that the opposite is more likely to be rewarded: out of 18 eventually-published papers, I only managed to piss off the referees enough for a revise/resubmit decision once, and I really went out of my way to keep the proofs vague that time.

Of course, I had a largely unremarkable career in a somewhat niche subfield: I'm sure there are levels where (a), (b), and more importantly the sheer speed required to get a result out are bigger incentives. And from yet other fields, I occasionally hear rumors of people who master the art of opaque writing and "parallel construction" only to make it difficult for others to get ahead of them (hi שַשֶׁ!).

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#25
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a consistent problem with the education system no matter what the topic is with few exceptions.

I'm pretty sure math is the most poorly taught subject out of all of them. Social studies, current events, history, literature arts are mostly skills most people use everyday. Math is important so every school is required to teach it however not many schools can. The issue with math is there are never going to be very many good math teachers as that would require many more people who know math. How many adults even k…

Even the basic content from textbook is not real mathematics. the daily work of mathematician is very different to calculate some interesting things.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#26

As somebody who works in a mathy subarea of computer science, oh man, I agree. My heart always falls when I need a result and it turns out the original paper is some terse typewritten notice from the 70s whose first sentence is a definition with a bunch of proper nouns and whose main theorem is given at the most general possible level with no applications at all. I have talked with math people about why this is, and…

In my experience, (c) is a very large part of it. At one point in my career, I decided to try writing good, accessible articles, which properly motivated definitions and well-explained arguments with plenty of hand-holding. When I did that, a version of the derogatory sentence "The proofs are easy / non-technical." would appear in the reviews. Every. Single. Time. Of course, I have some independent confirmation that…

My advice to all academics in STEM is, just write the main body of the paper exactly as how the orthodoxy demands. Use the style needed to get the paper accepted. Then, add a supplementary or appendix of the paper that is written for the human graduate student. Put in worked out examples, further details on the proof. Most times, it will just get through, and you will have accomplished your goal.

If the journal demands you remove the appendix or supplementary, just remove it from the published manuscript. Then add it to your ArXiv submission.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#27
post #13

The same should be said for engineering design docs tbh

absolutely disagree.

an engineering design document is about information retrieval, not education. It's not made to entertain or educate about new concepts, it's made to be terse and rigidly structured for the sake of aiding the work of the reader and to provide reliable information recall methods for those reading it.

I don't want to know what 'problems are worth attacking' when reading a design document, I want to know what tolerance criteria the hole on the left flange needs to meet.

There is more wiggle-room for artistic expression when we're talking about analytical papers like feasibility and failure analysis. It doesn't belong in the design phase. It creates confusion and ambiguity for the reader often, and those two things need not be introduced into design more than they already exist.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#28
IMHO it's even worse. Once we figure out P vs NP, we will understand what it means to invert boolean functions algorithmically, and all mathematics will be replaced with an automated process.

Today, most of the math is figuring out how to solve an equation, i.e. to give an algorithm to calculate the solution. We then "quantize" the algorithm to a state machine (e.g. convert reals to floats, algorithm steps to machine code), so that we could run the state machine on a computer and get a result.

However, once you know what it takes to invert boolean functions, you don't need the solution step, you can just quantize your equation (problem) directly to a SAT instance, and let the inversion algorithm do all the hard work. No (elegant and readable) math is required anymore.

So I think we better treat mathematics as a "useless" human artifact (like art or chess) rather than something of practical value.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#29

This really reminds me of a writing course I took called “Writing Stories for Science”. That’s where I first encountered the idea of story beats. The class seemed more focused on the natural sciences and story structures, so I got the impression this must be very difficult to apply to pure mathematical writing. Maybe it’s easier in applied mathematics where there’s a clearer reason that could be explained to a layper…

I don't think the point here is to make a math paper understandable to a lay person, but rather make it interesting and contextualize it for other academics.

Re: Math writing is dull when it neglects the human dimension

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, (c) is a very large part of it. At one point in my career, I decided to try writing good, accessible articles, which properly motivated definitions and well-explained arguments with plenty of hand-holding. When I did that, a version of the derogatory sentence "The proofs are easy / non-technical." would appear in the reviews. Every. Single. Time. Of course, I have some independent confirmation that…

My advice to all academics in STEM is, just write the main body of the paper exactly as how the orthodoxy demands. Use the style needed to get the paper accepted. Then, add a supplementary or appendix of the paper that is written for the human graduate student. Put in worked out examples, further details on the proof. Most times, it will just get through, and you will have accomplished your goal. If the journal deman…

This is good advice, but for a very different problem.

1. The problem in math is not that the way the "orthodoxy" insists on presenting things in a suboptimal way, but that if the reviewers find a good explanation of your result, they'll recommend that you publish in a lower-ranked venue than your result would ordinarily merit (at least unless you solved a famous problem). So researchers are incentivized to make the presentations of the proofs as opaque as possible. You can see this in conference and workshop talks (which tend to happen pre-publication in math), in many fields speakers always avoid presenting _any_ proofs. Putting better explanations in an appendix, which the referees can read, simply wouldn't help.

2. Being easy-to-understand at first is actively punished, but even being easy-to-understand in the long run is not rewarded. You can always write an explanatory blog post after the publication decision has been made, but you won't put effort into writing one if you don't gain anything from it. This applies even more to the people in the example, who wrote on a typewriter in the 1970s. There were no blogs, and it was much harder to get an appendix through because page limits were physical limits, and the act of writing was much more onerous before the age of computers and LaTeX. There was no point to doing it given that it was actively discouraged.

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