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The window for great-grandmothers is closing

memoirsandrambles.substack.com

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Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#431

Post by makeitdouble »

bitcoin_anon wrote: post #402
makeitdouble wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO the part about the kids not being ready is crucial. If they're just not well off financially I'd see your idea happen (but then, we already see grand parents giving a hand financially in these kind of circumstances) But if they're not ready mentally, there would be mountains of issues with their relationship with their child. For instance, do they even fully understand it's their child under their responsibility…

My life was a mess until we unexpectedly had our first child. I don’t think I ever would have considered myself mentally ready. The child came first, then I started growing into a suitable person.

TBF, I don't think any of us really understood what it would take or were well prepared to become parents, even when getting into it on our terms.

I don't know if I'm a suitable person, but having a kid sure pushed me out of my boundaries pretty far, in every possible direction.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#432

Post by pyuser583 »

supertofu wrote: post #428
pyuser583 wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a huge and well thought out consensus teenage parenthood is bad. It’s talked about a lot. Not as much as it used to be, but that’s because it’s become common sense. People don’t talk about common sense consensus positions. But good things can have bad side effects, and people can be so happy about the good thing, they don’t see the bad thing. Talk about the advantages of delayed child bearing all you want, bu…

I don't really care if the conversation is original, if it means we live in a world where girls are granted the opportunity to grow in knowledge and experience before sacrificing their bodies and lives to childbearing and childrearing.

And posting articles like this doesn’t take away from that in any way.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#433

Post by skulk »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #395
skulk wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does your second paragraph ("they design") not directly fly in the face of your first ("mistake this for an active, purposeful goal")?

Because the two aren't connected. They do want to design school curricula... "to make it better". But they're neither smart enough nor quite so self-aware that it's designed to deliberately lower fertility rates. One might say they're doing it subconsciously, but that seems more like mumbo jumbo to me.

> But they're neither smart enough nor quite so self-aware that it's designed to deliberately lower fertility rates

So who's doing this deliberation? Again, you're pointing to a conspiracy but also denying its existence in the same breath.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#434

Post by Brusco_RF »

DHPersonal wrote: post #392
rendang wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have evidence for the second paragraph? The wealthiest countries are generally those with lower birth rates, although the very lowest fertility is in upper-middle income regions like Eastern Europe and E Asia

Sweden doesn't have exactly the things that was mentioned, but it is far more supportive of parents than the United States: https://www.norden.org/en/info-norden/parental-benefit-swede...

And how does their fertility rate compare? Actually I'll tell you, Sweden's is 1.66, the USA is 1.64.

South Sudan, the poorest country in the world, is 4.54

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#435

Post by zbrozek »

vidarh wrote: post #317
dalyons wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it has gotten harder in some important ways, housing costs as a % of median income have risen by multiples since then. Shelter being thing that probably makes people feel the most insecure

Housing costs have increased as much as they have because people can afford to bid them up because other things do not take up as much of income.

Those 'other things' are generally more optional than shelter, so you'll bid up shelter until you get it while sacrificing those other things. Inelastic demand and inelastic supply is a bad combo.

We see affordability and population growth in places that allow housing.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#436

Post by elcomet »

latexr wrote: post #399
hateful wrote: post #373

I've always had this weird thought - that doesn't really pass the ethics test, but here it is anyway. I was raised by my grandmother - let's just say my parents were not ready. And I know a lot of parents that want their kids to have kids but the kids aren't ready. What if it would become the norm for Grandparents to raise the children? That way the second generation can focus on their careers, etc and the first gene…

> The whole point is that this happens all the time What happens all the time is an adult raising their our children and then later on raising their grandchildren. But what you’re suggesting is having old people with zero experience raising anyone taking care of their grandchildren. I don’t quite see that as a clearcut case of success.

What does it change from parents with zero experience taking care of their children ?

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#437

Post by pixl97 »

maxerickson wrote: post #177
pixl97 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course your great grandfather worked on a farm, a majority of people before mechanization worked on or around farm related tasks. Now, when it came to the 10 generations before your grandfather, it's pretty damned likely they worked on a farm. The industrial revolution shook things up.

Well it's good that the world has stopped changing and we can rest assured on our assumptions about how children will obviously follow their parents in most things.

>Well it's good that the world has stopped changing

I'm not sure you're paying much attention to politics, but there are massive movements that want exactly that, if not to drag us back to the past kicking and screaming.

I think the premise of we are like our parents is actually incorrect.... Our parents are like our culture would be the more correct assessment. In conservative more hierarchy based cultures you're much more likely to be like your parents, because if you are not you'll be shunned or worse.

Western culture in general has more of a "make your own path" ideology that increases the chances you'll be different from your parents.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#438

Post by antifa »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #385
hateful wrote: post #373

I've always had this weird thought - that doesn't really pass the ethics test, but here it is anyway. I was raised by my grandmother - let's just say my parents were not ready. And I know a lot of parents that want their kids to have kids but the kids aren't ready. What if it would become the norm for Grandparents to raise the children? That way the second generation can focus on their careers, etc and the first gene…

> And I know a lot of parents that want their kids to have kids but the kids aren't ready. ... The next generation would happen earlier, the first generation would have their grand kids and the second generation would have time to "wait" for whatever reason. I mean, putting aside the other good comments this has received, why are the kids not ready? Because if I look around at myself and my peers, I see a lot of peop…

> micro-wars

That's an interesting choice of worlds, I'd just call them wars, maybe proxy wars. Some of them look like candidates for what future historians might call the early conflicts of WW3. There's also lot of noise about declaring war on China too, which honestly sounds like a bad idea, and the grievances I've seen range from fake to you're-doing-the-same-thing and what's left is not really worth fighting a war over.

From what I've seen, the loudest proponents demanding everyone have more kids are also the worst offenders in making the world a worse place to be a new kid or a new parent.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#439

Post by lbourdages »

elcomet wrote: post #436
latexr wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole point is that this happens all the time What happens all the time is an adult raising their our children and then later on raising their grandchildren. But what you’re suggesting is having old people with zero experience raising anyone taking care of their grandchildren. I don’t quite see that as a clearcut case of success.

What does it change from parents with zero experience taking care of their children ?

Parents can ask their own parents for guidance. In the proposed scenario, the grandparents would have no one to ask because the previous generation is most likely dead already.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#440

Post by unsupp0rted »

jobs_throwaway wrote: post #416
jzb wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even leaving aside the ethics (which...yikes) I think this kind of falls down, logically. Parents want to become grandparents after having the experience of being parents. If you cut the "being parents" out of that cycle, why would you even want grand kids? And having been parents prepares grandparents to step in if needed. If you skip the parenting step, why would they be any better at it just because they're 20 yea…

what are your ethical qualms?

Child-rearing approaches that weren't used where/when I grew up are unethical
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