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The window for great-grandmothers is closing

memoirsandrambles.substack.com

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Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#171

Post by balfirevic »

zachmu wrote: post #136

Still think about this essay on the topic I saw on twitter a few years back: https://hmmdaily.com/2018/10/18/your-real-biological-clock-i... > If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children.

> you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children

It's obviously both?

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#172

Post by dividefuel »

deadbabe wrote: post #157

We need more good examples of what “old parents” look like in modern society. Having a first child in your 40s is often painted as a pessimistic, undesirable situation to be in, where you will “lack energy” and patience to take care of a small child. But why? If we’re serious about extending lifespans the average age of parents should be going up. People should be using their younger years to establish themselves in…

This sounds horrifying to me. If everyone has their first child at 40, then grandparents are always 80+ years old, leaving little (if any) overlap in time and rarely good overlap as those usually aren't high quality of life years. I think many people find the grandparent relationship very important, and diminishing it so strongly seems pretty harmful.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#173

Post by lukan »

angarg12 wrote: post #107
CalRobert wrote: post #8

If you haven't read the article, it's about how people having kids later means you won't meet your great grandparents. My mom had me when she was 23, and her mom had her at 22. I'm in my forties and still have two living grandparents, and am very grateful for them. I remember a lot of days where my grandmother watched me and my sister, and she was able to do that because she was only in her late 40's herself and plen…

The wording here is a bit odd, almost like blaming people for delaying childbearing. The world is complicated and a number of factors have produced this outcome in the developed world. My parents were factory workers and they encouraged me to study a university degree as a sure way to a successful career. I finished my degree well into my 20s, but then the economic collapse of 2008 happened and I spent several years…

"But it doesn't discount the fact that it's easier to start a family for someone with a stable job with a support network."

Definitely. Still, sometimes you have to take risks, as you are not getting younger. Maybe moving again somewhere, where you could have a support network, even though pay is lower, might be an option?

We had grandparents around, that definitely helped. No idea, what other people do without that. If both parents get sick, the child still needs lots of care .. and you don't want some stranger to take care of your baby.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#174

Post by thiht »

enobrev wrote: post #116
pimlottc wrote: post #95

For pete sake, don't break up the flow and over-complicate your very first sentence with irrelevant asides like this: > A friend and I were talking about our families today when I realized that my grandmother (this grandmother) became a grandma (not my grandma) at 45. I got confused and distracted trying to solve the riddle of why his "grandmother" was not his "grandma" [0] when it had nothing to do with the point he…

I no longer read anything in parentheses for this exact reason. It seems people tend to write their "live-edits" and "related thoughts" in parentheses rather than spending a moment to figure out what they want to say and writing it clearly. I've found skipping anything within parentheses tends to improve my understanding while reading.

This is my take on writing as well, I consider everything in parentheses as optional. If I want to write something in parentheses, I try to reconsider: either drop it, or write it without parentheses.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#175

Post by JackeJR »

em-bee wrote: post #118
pimlottc wrote: post #95

For pete sake, don't break up the flow and over-complicate your very first sentence with irrelevant asides like this: > A friend and I were talking about our families today when I realized that my grandmother (this grandmother) became a grandma (not my grandma) at 45. I got confused and distracted trying to solve the riddle of why his "grandmother" was not his "grandma" [0] when it had nothing to do with the point he…

i would have said it like this: my grandmother became a grandma to my cousin at 45

Append to that "x years before I was born"

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#176

Post by Xenoamorphous »

munificent wrote: post #115

If you ever sit down and really think about it, it is absolutely wild how profoundly the invention of the birth control pill has changed the course of human history, our cultures, and human society. It's gotta be up there with, like, writing and fire, in terms of shaping the destiny of our species.

Why that and not other contraceptives?

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#177

Post by maxerickson »

pixl97 wrote: post #134
maxerickson wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it wildly classist to so patly assume that attitudes are that transmissible? My great grandfather had like 10 siblings and worked on a farm. What's that tell you about me?

Of course your great grandfather worked on a farm, a majority of people before mechanization worked on or around farm related tasks. Now, when it came to the 10 generations before your grandfather, it's pretty damned likely they worked on a farm. The industrial revolution shook things up.

Well it's good that the world has stopped changing and we can rest assured on our assumptions about how children will obviously follow their parents in most things.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#178

Post by lukan »

zachmu wrote: post #144
decafninja wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately, you could be giving both them and yourself a better quality of life by waiting until you’re more ready. Obviously you don’t have forever to do this.

I think this is the story people tell themselves, but as far as I can tell it's mostly just a story. Kids are resilient and don't need the material wealth college educated people tend to assume they will to have a good childhood. And as for parents, there's really a lot to be said for raising kids while you're young and energetic, it's just easier. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless p…

"The problem is that it's nearly impossible to convey to a childless person how meaningful parenthood will be to their life."

It is also hard to convey, how hard it can be, making the transition from only taking care of yourself, to also being 100% responsible for someone else. Combine that with little sleep and relationships that were not working very good before and it is no wonder so many children end up in foster homes, or with traumatic experiences of neverending fights of their parents.

So no, the conditions don't need to be perfect, they never will be. But you have to have some stable base. And consensus with the partner on how to raise a child. Otherwise parenting won't be meaningful, but hell on earth for everyone involved.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#179

Post by dividefuel »

zachmu wrote: post #136

Still think about this essay on the topic I saw on twitter a few years back: https://hmmdaily.com/2018/10/18/your-real-biological-clock-i... > If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children.

This is a great way of putting it, and I think about this a lot.

My wife's ancestors had kids at younger ages, and my ancestors had kids at later ages. Her grandparents are all still alive, mine have all been gone for more than ten years.

My spouse and I are on track to have kids in our mid/late 30s. My wife's parents are both in their mid 50s, and realistically they'll probably have 20 years of overlap with our children.

My parents, though, are in their mid 70s. I have to hope they have at least another 10 years of good health so that they can forge a bond with our children. Even with good health, though, the way a 75-year old interacts with a young kid is going to be very different from the way a 55-year old does.

I made the same choice as my parents and will likely face the same future, where I may have little or no overlap with my grandchildren. Since my generation has delayed childbearing for so long, I think this is something we'll see largely as a mistake in about 20-30 years.

Re: The window for great-grandmothers is closing

#180

Post by zachmu »

dividefuel wrote: post #179
zachmu wrote: post #136

Still think about this essay on the topic I saw on twitter a few years back: https://hmmdaily.com/2018/10/18/your-real-biological-clock-i... > If you intend to have children, but you don’t intend to have them just yet, you are not banking extra years as a person who is still too young to have children. You are subtracting years from the time you will share the world with your children.

This is a great way of putting it, and I think about this a lot. My wife's ancestors had kids at younger ages, and my ancestors had kids at later ages. Her grandparents are all still alive, mine have all been gone for more than ten years. My spouse and I are on track to have kids in our mid/late 30s. My wife's parents are both in their mid 50s, and realistically they'll probably have 20 years of overlap with our chil…

Yes, I'm in a similar boat. We had our first kid in our early 30s, basically the same age my parents had me. My parents probably aren't going to be around much longer. We chose to live close to them so they see our kids a lot, but we are very aware of how little time they probably have left with them, and it's sad.
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