Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#351

Post by jimbokun » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:40 PM UTC

TacticalCoder wrote: post #108

thuuuomas wrote: post #94

Why was this headline changed in such an editorializing way? “Mixed society” is a loaded term not present in the original headline.

Yup this makes no sense. Note that the original is also wrong: "How does Paris stays Paris..." . To me Paris is not Paris at all anymore. The government is in damage control before the olympic games and shall try to hide that Paris is not Paris anymore but Paris honestly became a sad thing to see. There are many tourists having an actual shock and it can be really bad: if I'm not mistaken japanese even have a hotline…

I went to Paris on vacation last year, and there was garbage piled head high on the sidewalks and multiple riots in the city protesting the pension changes while we were there.

We had a wonderful time.

The riots are scheduled ahead of time, so we knew where and when to avoid. The garbage was not pleasant. But did not stop us from enjoying awesome cultural and culinary and sight seeing experiences.

From what I can tell, this Paris has always been Paris. It's always been rich versus poor, often far more violently than what I describe.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#352

Post by bko » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:40 PM UTC

digging wrote: post #288

bko wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok,think of the politician you dislike the most. Now imagine the discretion of "people of all ages backgrounds income levels etc" would fall to his or her purview to decide. Would you still support the system? We should have a clear objective system of governance that allows even terrible people to oversee it

> Now imagine the discretion of "people of all ages backgrounds income levels etc" would fall to his or her purview to decide. How much room for discretion is there actually in promoting diversity? I suppose you could forcibly break up poorer immigrant communities which would be pretty harmful.

It's simple, there are laws in the US that state that you cannot discriminate based on sex, religion, nationality, race, etc. if you would want to allow certain programs to help certain groups based on those characteristics you would have to lift those laws.

Do you favor removing those laws?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#353

Post by jimbokun » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:42 PM UTC

93po wrote: post #183

TacticalCoder wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup this makes no sense. Note that the original is also wrong: "How does Paris stays Paris..." . To me Paris is not Paris at all anymore. The government is in damage control before the olympic games and shall try to hide that Paris is not Paris anymore but Paris honestly became a sad thing to see. There are many tourists having an actual shock and it can be really bad: if I'm not mistaken japanese even have a hotline…

Paris syndrome is fairly over-hyped. From wiki: "Although the BBC reported in 2006 that the Japanese embassy in Paris had a "24-hour hotline for those suffering from severe culture shock",[4] the Japanese embassy states[clarification needed] no such hotline exists[clarification needed].[9][10] Also in 2006, Miyuki Kusama, of the Japanese embassy in Paris, told The Guardian "There are around 20 cases a year of the syn…

> Out of a million people who are Japanese that visit Paris every year

That's a staggering number of people! Almost 1% of all Japanese people visit Paris every year?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#354

Post by circlefavshape » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:43 PM UTC

circlefavshape wrote: post #343

circlefavshape wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 155lb human burns 177kcal when walking at 2.5mph[1], so that's 71kcal per mile There are 340kcal in 100g of wholemeal wheat flour[2], so walking one mile takes around 21g of wheat Wheat flour creates carbon emissions of 0.80 kg CO₂e/kg [3], so walking one mile creates carbon emissions of 170 g CO₂e Driving a vehicle powered by gasoline produces tailpipe emissions of around 400g per mile [4] [1] https://www.healthli…

However if the calories from your walk come from beef ... 100g of beef gives you 217 kcal [1], so you need 33g of beef for your walk Carbon cost for beef is 99.48 kg CO₂e/kg [2] So walking one mile fueled by beef creates ~3.3kg of carbon emissions, over 8 times what would be emitted if you drove [1] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods/beef#nutrition [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1201677/greenhouse-ga…

Oh and it turns out the carbon footprint for beef varies significantly by where the beef is raised. Average carbon footprint per 1kg of beef in the EU is 22.1 kg CO₂e [1], so if you're in the EU your beef-fueled 1 mile walk emits ~730g of CO₂e, a little under twice what you'd have emitted if you drove

[1] https://www.thebeefsite.com/news/33676/uk-beef-carbon-footpr...

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#355

Post by Pyrodogg » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:44 PM UTC

Ragnarork wrote: post #203

mebazaa wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and also you have the problem of job location. The regional government says they want to make the Paris area more "polycentric", but there’s a limit to that if jobs are heavily concentrated in one area. We are racing to open more subway lines, and that will surely help, but at some point, raw distance will remain a bottleneck.

This reminds of the project that aimed at creating a new business/commercial complex south-east of Paris in Noisy-Le-Grand. A real estate promoter had a big project, and a metro line was designed, then built, but the real estate project went into bankruptcy and never got out of the ground.[0] The metro line was completed, inaugurated, but never opened to the public, and eventually mothballed. For quite a while, it wa…

The Tim Traveller channel on YouTube did a couple videos about this [1] and [2]. The station was open for a brief time for some public tours before being redeveloped. He also links to some archival footage from 1997 showing it in motion [3].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWxESIzJhCU [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGIz_zwoALU [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMHW9cEAO78

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#356

Post by mywittyname » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:44 PM UTC

mebazaa wrote: post #115

lou1306 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, when you are competing with the center of Paris, it is pretty hard to build a compelling alternative. Say what you will about the streets being loud, chaotic and dirty, the area between the II, III, V and VI arrondissements (Latin quarter, Pantheon, Beaubourg, Jardin du Luxembourg, Tuilleries, Notre Dame, Place des Vosges) is still just swell.

Yeah, and also you have the problem of job location. The regional government says they want to make the Paris area more "polycentric", but there’s a limit to that if jobs are heavily concentrated in one area. We are racing to open more subway lines, and that will surely help, but at some point, raw distance will remain a bottleneck.

Seems like governments could lead the charge by building new government facilities in an alternate location, which is created with a solid plan for incorporating public transport, housing, event spaces, and retail.

Its entirely possible to build a new city from the ground up. And starting with a clean slate allows planners to design with the next 10,20,30,50 years of growth in mind. It's very difficult to scale a city effectively without a long-term city plan.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#357

Post by Fripplebubby » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:44 PM UTC

thuuuomas wrote: post #94

Why was this headline changed in such an editorializing way? “Mixed society” is a loaded term not present in the original headline.

I think it's a direct translation of the French phrase "mixité sociale" mentioned in the article, I bet the connotations are slightly different in English than in French.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#358

Post by IncreasePosts » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:47 PM UTC

walthamstow wrote: post #327

IncreasePosts wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares if most of the people working there drive in from France? The point in Monaco farthest from France is like a 10 minute drive away.

If the workers don't live in the city, how can they be considered part of its lifeblood? All of their cultural pursuits happen elsewhere.

Well, they don't live there, but they spend probably 10 hours/day there, or 60% of their waking hours. Where someone sleeps doesn't seem too important.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#359

Post by mrguyorama » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:48 PM UTC

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #264

jvanderbot wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instinctively repugnant To some. In very-red areas that I have relatives, they're happy to do a food drive, make donations, help pay for weddings or funerals, or show up to help repair houses. When you have 100 cousins and 10 brothers, this is a viable option. They frequent each others businesses, work on interconnected industries, and in general help out however they can. It's not instinctively repugnant to help ,…

> by taking some from those with more and giving it to those with less is almost instinctively repugnant I think the first part of this statement is crucial to the full meaning. It is not about charity[0]. It is about redistribution of wealth by force is repugnant. [0] This 2022 reports states US is #3 in charity (giving). https://www.cafonline.org/docs/default-source/about-us-resea...

Ah yes, the famous "actually americans donate a lot" nonsense. That report is based on SELF REPORTED donations.

IE, giving Joel Olstein $10k to help him buy a new private jet is considered "charitable giving" and is also considered more charitable than if you just chat up the Asylum family that was just settled next door and help them get integrated into the local community to help them network and find work and friends, despite being way more impactful to human beings than that fucking grifter.

That "research" will also consider donating to, say, an anti-abortion group or an explicitly anti-gay group as "donations", as long as you, the questionee, consider them to be.

Also, being self reported with zero verification of any kind, Americans might just lie more about how much they "give".

The IRS publishes statistics about claimed charitable giving. 2020 tax filers claimed about $150 million in charitable giving if I am reading the report correctly, so less than two dollars per American. That is definitely an undercount since most people who make small contributions do not itemize their taxes and probably don't report their charitable giving, but even that number will be tainted by a person "donating" their money to a charitable organization that they 100% control.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#360

Post by foldr » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 5:49 PM UTC

intalentive wrote: post #290

foldr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just don't like cities. Google pretty much any major Western city and you can find comments complaining that it's dirty, riddled with crime and has too many immigrants. Paris is a real place, not a theme park.

Western cities weren't always like this. They don't have to be like this.

If you take a reasonably long historical perspective, Western cities are a hell of a lot cleaner and safer now than they were in the past. Sewerage goes a long way.