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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#101

Post by mratsim »

bertjk wrote: post #93
baud147258 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the mechanics of how this works? If I agree to buy a property for a million dollars, does the city get a chance to match that price? there's a French wiki page on this: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_pr%C3%A9emption_urbai... But basically, yes, the city has 2 months to match the price. The city can also offer a lower price, which can be refused (so no sale at all) or can be argued in front of a spe…

So does this mean that every sale of any building can take at least two months?

They always take two months at the very minimum as well because buyers as to go to many banks or a loan broker. You have notaries involved and right to step away from a sale, no question asked for 10 days iirc.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#102

Post by UncleEntity »

bko wrote: post #58
eclipsetheworld wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allocating public housing could be done through an auction system. Bidders would submit offers for annual rent. The surplus, after deducting costs, could then be allocated to buying or building additional housing for this program. Alternatively, it could be used directly to subsidize rent for low-income individuals. In the end, this would solve the allocation problem while maximizing the available public housing. It…

You've literally described a market system. A developer charges as much as they can for their rental units. If profitable they take that surplus and build new units up until the point that the marginal cost of providing an apartment is equal to the marginal revenue for renting such a unit. This isn't due to benevolence but how you maximize profit. The developer also pays taxes which pays for public services So yes, I…

The problem with this so called 'market system' is it allows people to chose their neighbors through bidding only on properties they know the poors can't afford.

If the French wanted citizens to have the freedom of (dis)association they would have written it into their constitution.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#103

Post by robertlagrant »

moconnor wrote: post #57
bedobi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think like you but no longer do. A city NEEDS to have people of all ages, backgrounds, income levels etc in it to not die. Yes those people who live in that most central subsidized housing are in some ways winning a lottery ticket, and the real policy is to build a lot more housing as close to the city as possible. But Paris are doing that! AND adding new public transit etc etc. This multifaceted approach i…

Interesting, so to put this in market terms, the city is allowing the value that such people add to it to be offset against the cost of their rent. This would mean that cities like Paris choosing to do this is entirely rational and GP's calculation fails to reach this conclusion because it ignores the actual trade that is being made in these cases? Or to make a clichéd example: being cool and arty isn't particularly…

> But it can be rewarded by subsidised rents because people prefer to live in cities with a population of cool and arty people for the non-monetary benefits they bring to that society.

Well, some people do. But everyone is paying for it, even if they'd rather save.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#104

Post by lucaspfeifer »

thuuuomas wrote: post #94

Why was this headline changed in such an editorializing way? “Mixed society” is a loaded term not present in the original headline.

What do you find 'loaded' about the phrase 'mixed society'? It is more descriptive than the meaningless phrase in the original headline: "How Does Paris Stay Paris?".

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#105

Post by bedobi »

082349872349872 wrote: post #98

Before the invention of the elevator, buildings were more naturally mixed-use: shops (and stables?) on the ground floor, posh tenants on the first, all the way up to artists and baristas in their garrets under the roof. By democratising travel within a building, ironically the elevator made it possible to have neighbourhoods for which service workers had to commute primarily from the outside along the x and y axes, n…

this makes zero sense, plenty of cities with housing built mostly after the invention of the elevator that have mixed use neighborhoods with tall, low and medium height buildings alike

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#106

Post by rTX5CMRXIfFG »

mebazaa wrote: post #34

As a Parisian, who is generally angry at the city’s housing policy (build taller!), I find the public housing of the past few years to be a great achievement. In general, public housing sits on the outer edges of Paris, but the city has been agressive in reconverting buildings in posher neighborhoods. It doesn’t really lead to reduced rent (because no additional supply), but it decreases social segregation. That alon…

> build taller

As someone who lives in an area with plenty of high-density residential buildings, I can attest that this is a perfect recipe for creating congested cities with such intense light and noise pollution.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#108

Post by TacticalCoder »

thuuuomas wrote: post #94

Why was this headline changed in such an editorializing way? “Mixed society” is a loaded term not present in the original headline.

Yup this makes no sense. Note that the original is also wrong: "How does Paris stays Paris...".

To me Paris is not Paris at all anymore.

The government is in damage control before the olympic games and shall try to hide that Paris is not Paris anymore but Paris honestly became a sad thing to see.

There are many tourists having an actual shock and it can be really bad: if I'm not mistaken japanese even have a hotline they can call if they're in shock when they discover the shithole that Paris as become as opposed to the rosy picture of Paris that is painted abroad.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#109

Post by em-bee »

brainwad wrote: post #20
bugglebeetle wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Vienna is one of the most beautiful, livable cities in the world, with its masses of public housing, while major U.S. cities have homelessness crises and TV shows about house flipping for profit. Perhaps we should stop debating things based on the hokum of Econ 101 textbooks and look at what in the real world has actually worked (e.g. abolishing most forms of zoning, massive investments in public housing, rob…

Vienna has had the luxury of having had relatively little demand for housing for over a century. The population peaked in WWI and still hasn't recovered (it was 2.24m in 1916, 2.00m in 2023).

vienna also had a lot of buildings destroyed in the war which increased the demand. population was as low as 1.5 or 1.6m in the late 80s/early 90s. it grew back to 2m in just a few decades, and it is going to continue to grow, so i'd argue that it has recovered quite well.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#110

Post by hokkos »

The reality of this housing policies is that it is currently bankrupting the city of Paris with a skyrocketing debt and growing local taxes. They spent enormous sum of money to buy old buildings at the historical peak of their price, buildings ill-fitted to house poor wide families and sometimes in very expansive neighborhood where they have to travel far to get access to cheaper groceries. Also the delta between the low rent and the theoretical market rate for the housing is insane, this is equivalent to several thousand euros in untaxed shadow income, all from randomness or special favor. All with the goal to transform 40% of the housing in socialised ones, this is a power grab of the mayor to assure them votes for the future and has always been the strategy of the communist towns surrounding Paris.
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