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Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

nytimes.com

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Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#161

Post by metaphor »

FredPret wrote: post #123

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it. Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically. Just compare these companies: https://valustox.com/INTC https://valustox.com/AMD https://valustox.com/AVGO https://valustox.com/AMAT Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA EDIT the…

How do you come off with a straight face attempting to compare a bunch of fabless design houses with a company that actually owns the infrastructure and processes to make tangible products, even if not the prevailing sexiest thing?

You're living in a bubble if you think the biggest money printer in the world actually cares about the historical performance of your cherry-picked stock comparisons.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#162

Post by ericd »

singhrac wrote: post #122

I think actually the problem with this program is not the recipient (I mean, Intel is literally the only American company building fabs in the US) but the structure. The problem with US fans is that the skilled Taiwanese workforce is simply willing to work for less and more flexibly. We could easily solve that problem if we were willing to do what China is doing, which is paying Taiwanese PhDs, engineers, and technic…

Absolutely, we should be trying extremely hard to skim the cream of the rest of the world. That's historically been one of our greatest strengths/abilities.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#163

Post by upheaval7276 »

asabjorn wrote: post #137
hollywood_court wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine we’d have that skilled workforce if companies paid enough. I’m a former construction contractor who reinvented myself as a software developer. Each time I run into one of my former peers in the construction industry I hear the same complaints from them. “We can’t hire any good help.” Yet they are still paying the same non living wages that they have for 30 years.

[flagged]

You’re likely being downvoted for posting an opinion piece with zero supporting evidence.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#164

Post by eitally »

singhrac wrote: post #122

I think actually the problem with this program is not the recipient (I mean, Intel is literally the only American company building fabs in the US) but the structure. The problem with US fans is that the skilled Taiwanese workforce is simply willing to work for less and more flexibly. We could easily solve that problem if we were willing to do what China is doing, which is paying Taiwanese PhDs, engineers, and technic…

100% this.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#165

Post by curiousllama »

eitally wrote: post #156
rhelz wrote: post #132

WRT to lack of a skilled workforce, here is an interesting anecdote. I remember back in the late 90's, Intel had to fire most line workers in their FABS, and hire people with Ph.D.'s in solid-state physics. I actually knew one of these people who were fired: She was our housecleaner. And--like the supper-smart garbage man of the Dilbert Cartoons, she was very smart. Smarter than me. I know because she helped me solve…

That's a silly anecdote and I have a hard time believing chip fab line workers are too much different from those in other types of high-tech (where I spent 15 years working on test automation & quality systems). Some smart folks, for sure, but almost zero roles required even actual engineering background. A lot of management had strong technical education, but the vast majority of line workers are just following simp…

Having seen a few 'high tech' places myself: there's high tech, and then there's _high tech_.

Assembling a motherboard is to semiconductor fabs as flying a toy drone is to landing a Boeing 747. One you can learn in an afternoon; the other takes years to learn.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#166

Post by ETHisso2017 »

metaphor wrote: post #161
FredPret wrote: post #123

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it. Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically. Just compare these companies: https://valustox.com/INTC https://valustox.com/AMD https://valustox.com/AVGO https://valustox.com/AMAT Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA EDIT the…

How do you come off with a straight face attempting to compare a bunch of fabless design houses with a company that actually owns the infrastructure and processes to make tangible products, even if not the prevailing sexiest thing? You're living in a bubble if you think the biggest money printer in the world actually cares about the historical performance of your cherry-picked stock comparisons.

Then let's look at TSMC: https://valustox.com/TSM

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#167

Post by jdblair »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #53
jdblair wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody needs to force Intel to do this, Intel is already doing it. They manufacture other company's designs for hire. Opening up their foundries for use by other companies is part of Intel's current business strategy. There are only three companies in the world with cutting edge semiconductor manufacturing capability: Samsung, TSMC and Intel.

You just argued with yourself. You said there’s only three suppliers, two of which the U.S. wants to avoid. Then, that Intel is controlling and benefiting from how those projects are manufactured. That means the billions would shore up a domestic monopoly that’s in a tiny oligopoly. My proposal would use our tax dollars to create plants that use Intel technology, but aren’t under their control, with different busines…

Ok, I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you meant license access to the foundry, like TSMC does.

What you're proposing is that the US stand up a semiconductor fab that can compete with Intel. That's going to be hard!

I think "use Intel technology" is a lot less practical than it might seem. After all, Intel uses ASML technology, and anyone with enough money can buy the machinery (as long as they're not based in China). Intel manufacturing tech is the sum total of all the skill and expertise of Intel's employees.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#168

Post by jp42 »

FredPret wrote: post #123

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it. Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically. Just compare these companies: https://valustox.com/INTC https://valustox.com/AMD https://valustox.com/AVGO https://valustox.com/AMAT Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA EDIT the…

Intel can save a lot of money by getting rid of incompetent folks in higher management, closing a lot of projects/teams that do not add value, a lot of middle management, simplifying processes that slow down the teams that are actually doing job, changing culture where working 10hr/wk is not tolerated. They need to do some variation of what Elon did to twitter. I have seen many of these things first hand.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#169

Post by dotnet00 »

no_wizard wrote: post #106

Wouldn't GlobalFoundries (HQ in New York and supposedly on the "Trusted Foundry" list) have made more sense, since they fabricate chips for multiple different companies, where as Intel only makes them for Intel? Boosts a competitor, opens up fab capacity for all and moves the needle on the intentions behind the CHIPS act, all at once.

Intel has also been opening up their fabs to other customers in the past few months.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#170

Post by metaphor »

ETHisso2017 wrote: post #166
metaphor wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you come off with a straight face attempting to compare a bunch of fabless design houses with a company that actually owns the infrastructure and processes to make tangible products, even if not the prevailing sexiest thing? You're living in a bubble if you think the biggest money printer in the world actually cares about the historical performance of your cherry-picked stock comparisons.

Then let's look at TSMC: https://valustox.com/TSM

I've been looking for TSMC within the domestic borders of CONUS for longer than you might imagine.

Reiterating, the money printer doesn't give a flying fuck about stock price trends.

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