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Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

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Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#151

Oh good, another bunch of board members can now afford their yacht club memberships for 2024. These handouts need to stop.

The alternative is to be dependent on the rest of the world for chips.

The market decided that the most efficient transaction is to offshore all of this infrastructure to geopolitically-compromised areas and pray that China never does what every other emerging power in the history of geopolitics has done.

The market chose wrong.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#152
post #132

WRT to lack of a skilled workforce, here is an interesting anecdote. I remember back in the late 90's, Intel had to fire most line workers in their FABS, and hire people with Ph.D.'s in solid-state physics. I actually knew one of these people who were fired: She was our housecleaner. And--like the supper-smart garbage man of the Dilbert Cartoons, she was very smart. Smarter than me. I know because she helped me solve…

Maybe too much money is exactly the problem? I rarely see people tackling hard problem for money, because it is not an efficient way of making money.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying INTC isn't valuable - just saying they seem to have missed the boat in a big way and changes are in order. The US does of course need on-shore chip foundries for strategic reasons.

Pat Gelsinger only returned 3 years ago, it just takes a while for changes to propagate through an org as large as Intel.

I hope you turn out to be right.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#154

Intel could have funded this themselves many times over if they'd reinvested their profits instead of paying huge buybacks and dividends.

The goal of a corporation is to generate value for shareholders, and we don't give any incentives for them to do otherwise.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#156
post #132

WRT to lack of a skilled workforce, here is an interesting anecdote. I remember back in the late 90's, Intel had to fire most line workers in their FABS, and hire people with Ph.D.'s in solid-state physics. I actually knew one of these people who were fired: She was our housecleaner. And--like the supper-smart garbage man of the Dilbert Cartoons, she was very smart. Smarter than me. I know because she helped me solve…

That's a silly anecdote and I have a hard time believing chip fab line workers are too much different from those in other types of high-tech (where I spent 15 years working on test automation & quality systems). Some smart folks, for sure, but almost zero roles required even actual engineering background. A lot of management had strong technical education, but the vast majority of line workers are just following simple instructions.

I could be wrong about how fabs work, of course, and would love to learn more.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#157

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it. Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically. Just compare these companies: https://valustox.com/INTC https://valustox.com/AMD https://valustox.com/AVGO https://valustox.com/AMAT Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA EDIT the…

No shock that profits are failing when they are investing heavily

I'm not an accountant but they should be able to capitalize expenses incurred when it's an investment, ie, since it's not really a normal expense profit should not be affected.

I'm not sure how that works with R&D engineering salaries - that might impact their profits even if it's an investment.

I feel like a large technology company should spend a large but consistent amount of money on R&D - I don't like wild swings either way.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#159
post #79

Right now one of the biggest blockers in on-shoring semiconductor fab at any kind of reasonable price-point and timescale is the lack of a skilled workforce. This legislation has dual objectives: train new people to get into sophisticated manufacturing AND to build out the actual infrastructure itself. That almost guarantees it won't be the most efficient way to actually get these chips on American soil. Whether we l…

I don't buy this for a minute. It's very easy to train people to work in factories and there are lots of Americans willing to do it if the pay is right. These companies are just complaining so they can get more federal handouts to offset the higher labor costs of onshoring.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#160
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just sounds like how we got into our current mess with Boeing.

You're not wrong, but having an incredibly important dependence on an industry 100 miles off the coast of China (and the target of their increasingly erratic dictator) is worth paying billions to break.

Well it's a bit like how I see universal healthcare. Would it be worth paying billions for? Oh absolutely. Do I believe the current US Gov could actually take all the money in the world and make it happen in a way I'd be happy with? LOL.
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