Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 657 posts

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#121

Post by ThinkBeat »

Too big to fail coming the rounds again?

Intel failed to keep up with competition due to some really bad decisions and incompetence.

Now they are bailed out by the Biden administration with a giant state subsidy. I think this falls under protectionism. which might cause problems with the WTO.

I would guess the administration will or already have filed it under "National security" or something similar.

Where does this money come from? Has it been fully funded by congress? (hopefully)

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#122

Post by singhrac »

I think actually the problem with this program is not the recipient (I mean, Intel is literally the only American company building fabs in the US) but the structure. The problem with US fans is that the skilled Taiwanese workforce is simply willing to work for less and more flexibly.

We could easily solve that problem if we were willing to do what China is doing, which is paying Taiwanese PhDs, engineers, and technicians to come to the US. Give them a streamlined visa and green card process, and pay them a cash bonus to emigrate.

I mean, this is America’s core strength - we have strong Taiwanese communities they could integrate into, a social structure that is ultimately much more positive on immigrants than most places in the world, and incredibly high salaries.

A lot of people talk about training a US workforce, and I totally agree we should embrace that. But there are limits, and ultimately as a country we should encourage skilled immigration whenever and however we can. After all they’ll train locals eventually, even if by proximity.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#123

Post by FredPret »

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it.

Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically.

Just compare these companies:

https://valustox.com/INTC

https://valustox.com/AMD

https://valustox.com/AVGO

https://valustox.com/AMAT

Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM

This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA

EDIT these guys aren't primarily chipmakers, but they're deriving at least a couple of $Bn per year from making good ones: https://valustox.com/AAPL

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#125

Post by Salgat »

34679 wrote: post #68

I feel sorry for any startups looking to innovate in this space. It's hard enough competing against established players without them getting billions in free money. Intel has had the resources to build out fabs in the US for decades. Instead, they've chosen to build elsewhere, and now they're rewarded for it? They recently announced their $20b facility in Ohio is being "put on hold": https://www.tweaktown.com/news/96…

CHIPS isn't a handout; it's the only way to get them to build these expensive fabs domestically in a way that makes economic sense.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#126

Post by Leary »

neogodless wrote: post #120
Leary wrote: post #97

What's the most advanced node Intel is producing in the US right now in mass production?

https://siliconangle.com/2023/09/29/intel-begins-mass-produc... I believe "Intel 4" is their current most advanced mass-produced process.

Thanks for the response. The article only mentions Ireland though, has Intel done the same in the US?

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#127

Post by x0x0 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #96
IncreasePosts wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more of an inducement to get the company to do what they might not do on their own. Intel doesn't need the CHIPS act, America does, and America is paying Intel to make it happen.

This just sounds like how we got into our current mess with Boeing.

You're not wrong, but having an incredibly important dependence on an industry 100 miles off the coast of China (and the target of their increasingly erratic dictator) is worth paying billions to break.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#129

Post by spaniard89277 »

RandomWorker wrote: post #91
icyfox wrote: post #79

Right now one of the biggest blockers in on-shoring semiconductor fab at any kind of reasonable price-point and timescale is the lack of a skilled workforce. This legislation has dual objectives: train new people to get into sophisticated manufacturing AND to build out the actual infrastructure itself. That almost guarantees it won't be the most efficient way to actually get these chips on American soil. Whether we l…

The issue is there are few opportunities for junior people to start their careers. There is no shortage of talent but where do we start? I’ve been applying for jobs in the semi conductor industry but haven’t had any luck because ever Is looking for senior staff but nothing for newcomers.

In most of the west (with few exceptions) is that you should waste at least a decade training yourself with little information of what's useful to learn.

Then, you'll be talked down for being poor and lost. And whatever money you make will be put directly in the hands of your landlords, that profits off scarcity.

Post reply on HN