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Wozniak calls for open Apple

itnews.com.au

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Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#121

Post by pilsetnieks »

tobiasu wrote: post #99
bnr wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad no consumer cares for that kind of gold.

citation needed... WP: Despite a modest launch and a limited distribution in terms of markets, Nokia's N9 model has reached sales estimated between 1.5 and 2 million devices. According to Nokia's own quarterly report and analyst company Canalys analyses, the combined deliveries of the comparable Lumia devices summed to approximately 1.2-1.5 million in the last quarter.

N900 is a completely different device, unrelated to N9.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#122

Post by 54mf »

ricardobeat wrote: post #65
rogerbinns wrote: post #21

Here is a nice comparison. Buy a mobile device and try to use the standard developer tools to put Hello World on it. Android: Download Eclipse (Windows, Linux or Mac) and the Android SDK (Windows, Linux or Mac) - no accounts or registration needed for either of these. In your phone menus enable development and connect via USB. In Eclipse make your hello world project, and hit Run or Debug. Enjoy. Apple: You must buy…

That's a brutal over-simplification of what you need before developing for Android. "Downloading the Android SDK" is actually a dozen steps of installs, updates, add-ons, setting up emulator devices and so on. The Apple dance takes a couple minutes to do and costs $99/year.

Yeah, it was significantly more difficult to set up an Android dev environment than it was to get Xcode working. Not to mention, the Android SDK is actually a ton of different SDKs for every possible version of the OS, with a bunch of device-specific SDKs on top of those.

Don't even get me started on emulators. AVD Manager is a joke.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#123

Post by alecco »

jacquesm wrote: post #11

I absolutely love Steve Wozniak for stuff like this, he's everything I could ever dream of being. At the same time that lovely naivete about what would happen is exactly why this will never fly. Apple is the golden goose and nobody will sign off on a risky move that might kill the goose or stop it from laying those golden eggs. If there is one thing that makes CEO's conservative it is very large streams of income. Yo…

Apple can try with something small. They use a lot of open source.

On the other hand, they can learn from others. Android/Google is catching on Apple due in part to a mostly open platform.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#124

Post by leviathan »

gnufied wrote: post #102
megablast wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea whether you are talking about Apple or Google.

It was for Apple obviously. Only apple can require you to pay $99 and fax them your proof of identity just for running a app on your own device (actually, I no longer remember which document they asked, but I remember I didn't had time or motivation to scan and fax those documents).

There are not documents to scan, there's a form that you have to download and put your credit card info on and fax it.

Still pretty lame to still be faxing payment info in 2012.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#125

Post by Geee »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #121
tobiasu wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

citation needed... WP: Despite a modest launch and a limited distribution in terms of markets, Nokia's N9 model has reached sales estimated between 1.5 and 2 million devices. According to Nokia's own quarterly report and analyst company Canalys analyses, the combined deliveries of the comparable Lumia devices summed to approximately 1.2-1.5 million in the last quarter.

N900 is a completely different device, unrelated to N9.

N9 uses basically the next version of the same OS, so they are very much related.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#126

Post by pessimizer »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #121
tobiasu wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

citation needed... WP: Despite a modest launch and a limited distribution in terms of markets, Nokia's N9 model has reached sales estimated between 1.5 and 2 million devices. According to Nokia's own quarterly report and analyst company Canalys analyses, the combined deliveries of the comparable Lumia devices summed to approximately 1.2-1.5 million in the last quarter.

N900 is a completely different device, unrelated to N9.

The N9 is the next in the series after the N900, and aside from a lot of very cute UI changes, and a lack of a keyboard (which was relegated to the N950), it still runs on Maemo (though branded MeeGo) and is a Linux phone.

Oh, and they switched to rpms from debs, I think. I can see how that would make you think they were unrelated:)

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#127

Post by roc »

Open Apple is a description of a fundamentally different company. Apple does do a bit with open source and could do quite a bit more without problems.

But what "Open Apple" implies, are things like an "Open" specification for the Dock Connector. And "Open" specifications that invite vendors to write their own device drivers to handle those accessories.

And that's an invitation for third parties to sell crap accessories with buggy or broken drivers and generally annoy the hell out of users who are currently paying Apple a premium to not be annoyed.

Similarly with services. "Open" the specification, allow the world in, and you get crap and esoteric support problems.

Again: things that people pay Apple a premium to not suffer.

And none of this is to say Apple is perfect, or their way is better. They make their mistakes, but they believe they're the right people to fix them. And they naturally support fewer devices, fewer services and fewer use cases. So it's far from appropriate for everybody. But it's damn sure appropriate for Apple's customers.

Woz's statement reads like a musing from someone who doesn't understand why the best of intentions don't always become the best of manifestations.

If you Open Apple, they'll get new, different customers. And lose all the old ones.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#128

Post by pessimizer »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #60
userdeveloper wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hoop is not using the software. The hoop is having to install the software. Why can't the iPod work without iTunes? (It can, but only with a lot of work.)

IIRC correctly most of the older MP3 players didn't need any software beyond what was built into Windows. Of course this was the era of Windows 95/98 so how well that worked overall it's difficult to say.

And most of the current mp3 players, as far as I know. iPods are the broken ones.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#129

Post by parasubvert »

userdeveloper wrote: post #64
bitwize wrote: post #32

Not gonna happen. Apple devices are abstractions with well-defined interfaces (sets of operations you can perform on them). Not only should the implementation not matter, it is anathema that anyone should know the implementation because that would break the abstraction at a fundamental level. It's absurd for a bunch of hackers to think about, but this is what has made Apple billions of dollars, and it's what made the…

The true simplicity actually lies below those abstractions. It seems reasonable to assume that people would not buy Apple products if they were too difficult to use. It seems reasonable to assume people do not buy them for ease of use. Other competing systems are also easy to use. It seems reasonable to assume they buy them because they "look cool", much more so than any competing product. It seems reasonable to assu…

Things can seem reasonable and not be true.

Lots of hackers continue to use Apple laptops because the software and hardware has combined what they perceive as the best quality in the industry. They don't do this because they look cool.

One can't also assume the iPad is the only runaway tablet success because of a cool factor or hardware design. The iPad was laughed at on first release by most geeks and pundits. But then people got to using one and found it more useable than a laptop for many daily tasks.

One also can't look at the iPhone margins without noting the key differentiator: iOS and iOS Apps. Software, in other words.

All companies have something to fear - they're in a competitive business. Apple just seems to be better at it than most (this generation).

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#130

Post by slowpoke »

freehunter wrote: post #112
rogerbinns wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specifically do you have to do to get that dev certificate? Is that for you or for the device? (Note I'm only talking about the case where you want to put you own app on your own device, not about publishing it to the general public.) Hopefully my original post inspires someone to try this with all the platforms. I'm particularly aware of the requirements to create accounts and registrations, the size of downloa…

Besides paying the $99 for a dev account (that allows you to publish to the marketplace), you can pay ~$10 for a personal app account, which allows you to load 10 apps of your own creation onto your device. Much cheaper if you just want to put your own app on your own device.

Please tell me this is a joke.

I have to pay to load applications I wrote myself on my own device?

This is even more ridiculous than just locking down the platform. This is a slap in the face. Good thing WP7 is failing to reach the mass market so far. I seriously hope it stays that way.

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