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Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

medicalxpress.com

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Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#151
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never seen anyone who's obese and having a diet that made me go "huh that's odd how can they be obese?" Your question isn't refuting OPs claim: the people you are observing to be fat are fat because of their carb/sugar intake, not fat. i.e. if you just fed someone large amounts of protein and fat they would be lean; it is the sugar and carbs that make them fat.

Humans are bad at lipogenesis: we can only convert tiny fraction of the carbs into fat. Thus: the fat your eat is largely the fat you wear. You cannot explain it otherwise (without showing a undiscoverd way humans can convert carbs into fat). > i.e. if you just fed someone large amounts of protein and fat they would be lean; it is the sugar and carbs that make them fat. This is dangerous. It may work on the short ter…

Why would a mammal's body evolved to use fat cells to store and utilise lipids for energy?

Plants have carbs in starch. Mammals evolved away from starch to store and use triglycerides.

During fasting, the human body is able to survive for months without food.

Thus months of lipid metabolism

Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: how? I've never seen anyone who's obese and having a diet that made me go "huh that's odd how can they be obese?" While the inverse occasionally has been true, generally people who I consider in good shape appear to eat less, and less greasy food. So while there might be exceptions it seems to be a damn good rule of thumb to me.

People get fat through consuming more calories than they burn for energy during the day. There are extra but around the edges but no matter the ratio of fat to carbs to protein, if someone consumes (food or liquid) 3,000 calories a day but only burns 2,500 calories a day then a decent portion of that 500 cal difference will get stored as body fat. You could eat 0 calories of fat but if that total of carbs and protein…

The calorie hypothesis isn't the most likely from all the research I've done. The calorie as a unit of measure doesn't even make much sense IMO.

A calorie is measured by burning food a specific distance away from a specific amount of water and measuring how much the water temperature rises. It's based on an assumption that the body uses all energy in the food the same, and that fire is analogous to the complex process from digestion to energy use in the cell. The calorie as a measure effectively equates the body to a coal power plant.

Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#153
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except there's literally a result out this week linking fasting (specifically 16+ hour intermittent fasting) with a 91% increase in cardiovascular disease deaths, which if it holds up would utterly swamp any incremental improvements to alzheimers risk. No free lunch in personal health decisions, alas. Really the only good advice is stick to well-established science, be healthy in general, avoid internet advice, and d…

The results unfortunately are too vague to support that interpretation. There was no causal linkage because they couldn't determine why people were fasting: suppressed appetite due to illness, suppressed appetite due to being a smoker (which is very common), skipping meals due to poverty. It also found that while cardiovascular deaths increased by 91% overall deaths were completely unchanged...which is a bit difficul…

> The results unfortunately are too vague to support that interpretation.

I think you completely missed the point. Sure, it's a new result and being an outlier needs to be treated with care (which I believe I said). It's still a more rigorous finding of health effect than anything in the grandparent's comment about how you should fast to avoid Alzheimer's. Ergo advice like that is bad.

Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#154

As a former Alzheimer's researcher, this is a big fucking deal. It puts together a lot of clues (APOE risk, microglia) and finds a theory that makes a lot of sense. All around the world, there are labs pulling late nights trying to figure out how to drug this.

"Back when Alzheimer's disease was first identified by Alois Alzheimer, he noted that in addition to the plaques and tau buildup, there was also a buildup of fat droplets in brain cells. Since that time, little effort has been made to determine whether they might be the cause of the disease."

I'm not medical researcher but I find this statement incredible. It's over 120 years since Alzheimer did this work. Why the fuck is it just becoming a big deal now? Surely this info was in the literature back then so why was it ignored and not followed up decades ago?

With Alzheimer's we've witnessed over many decades seemingly any number research leads that have gotten nowhere and have ended up as dead ends yet it's only now that we're following up an ancient lead that should have been researched many decades ago.

As a lay onlooker, such revelations only further shake my faith in medical research. Every week there are many high profile PR announcements and research papers with the promise of major medical breakthroughs yet the vast percentage come to naught, or what's reported is such a miniscule incremental step towards actual medical treatment that an effective treatment might not be realized for decades, if at all.

Why is medical research allowed to be hyped like this? Much of the reason why the public's faith and trust in science is at an all-time low is the undeliverable hype from medical research. After decades of hyped promises about cures and treatments which aren't delivered or that fall short of the promise people no longer believe or researchers. People are just fed up with promises that aren't delivered.

It's not only research into Alzheimer's that the public feels as having fallen short, it's almost the full gamut. Take cancer research for instance, it's been grossly over hyped for many decades.

Let me explain:

I recall as a child in the 195Os before starting school, my mother took me to a movie matinee, there was a main feature and newsreels. I clearly remember two of the newsreel stories, one was on rockets and warfare and the other about cancer research. After the matinee I ask my mother about cancer and so as not to worry me she said "it's a rare disease you'll never have to worry about."

A couple of years later when I was about 7 or 8, we were on holidays at my grandmother's place and I saw that her next-door neighbor was quite ill and my grandmother told me she was dying of cancer. That's when I found out my mother had lied to me, and even at that age I was shocked and upset that she'd done so.

I've always remembered those incidents so ever since I've taken note of articles and reports about cancer in newspapers, popular science mags such as SciAm, New Scientist, and in professional journals such as Science and Nature, etc., and whilst I've not taken count, there has been many thousands of them over those many decades. Almost every one of these reports has made claims about 'promising research' or a 'possible cure' for cancer.

Let's look at the facts, the vast majority of those reports and research papers has come to naught! As a guesstimate, I'd reckon that if the research in 0.1% of them had actually been positive and even partially successful and led to actual treatment that was effective then cancer would either be cured by now or at least a very manageable disease. Well, as we all know, that hasn't happened by a long measure. Yes, some progress has been made but it's a drop in the ocean, as about one third of the population still dies of cancer. No matter how one massages the stats that's not success.

Fact is, whether it's cancer, Alzheimer's, drug research or other medical research, there's a never ending stream of reports that promise much, much more than they ever deliver.

Another form of disingenuous hype in PR releases and medical research papers is that the title and abstract are often over hyped. Words like 'significant' or 'large improvements' are used when referring to some procedure or outcome. A full reading of the text shows the actual figure as low as 5% or so. In my opinion that verges on scientific fraud. It won't fool any researcher who reads the paper but it will a newspaper editor who only reads the title and abstract (he/she likely won't understand the body text anyway). Right, the hype goes straight through to and misleads the public.

It's time the medical industry took away the rose-colored glasses and stopped the hype and bullshit about medical research. It's time medical researchers stopped publishing for the sake of it, or for career advancement, or to obtain increased funding.

Publishing substandard research or research that's going to end up a dead end, or can't result in treatments for decades is not only unethical but it's unfair on those who are ill, it gives false hopes that come to nothing.

Finally, the quote above backs up what many of us lay people have thought for decades, which is that much medical research is either uncoordinated and or badly misdirected.

Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#155
post #130
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans are bad at lipogenesis: we can only convert tiny fraction of the carbs into fat. Because historically food is scarce or difficult to obtain, in general organisms develop mechanisms to make good use of it: when excess food ("energy") is available, it is stored rather than wasted. This is also true in particular for mammals, and for humans. It's quite obvious that humans are very effective at storing excess en…

Nope. If humans eat both carbs and fat (most of us do), the excess calories of fat goes mainly into the storage (or plaques to your arteries), while the carbs are used in the sort term (converted into glucose). > Lipogenesis is mostly derived from carbohydrates and is a relatively minor contributor to whole-body lipid stores, contributing 1–3% of the total fat balance in humans consuming a typical diet. From: https:/…

The human body doesn't need to store excess calories. It could store the excess calories or it can excrete energy through urine(glucose, ketones) Or it can ramp up metabolism, there are many scenarios. Not all lead to adipose tissue growth. Why not muscle growth, which is somehow always overlooked in these discussions.

Funny enough adipose tissue and muscle growth are both through hormones. If testorone and hgh are high then muscles growth will prioritised over adipose tissue.

People with type 1 diabetes have figured out how to stay thin after eating copious amounts[0]. They won't inject themselves with insulin. Unhealthy, sure, but they won't store calories, as adipose tissue (fat cells) remain inactive, even though blood glucose is dangerously high.

Just looking at calories is simplification, and is just for general guidance.

[0]https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22658-diabuli...

Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#156
post #8

My aunt started showing symptoms of Alzheimer's. My grandfather passed from it. Is there any thing to do in order to prevent or delay the disease?

There was a paper years ago saying in some Autopsies they found signs of Alzheimer's being 'repaired' in people who stayed mentally active. Anecdotally the people in my family that had it stopped engaging their brains in deep ways before it happened. Surely that's no silver bullet or everyone would do it, but thought I'd share

Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#157
post #98
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'At least I annoyed someone' is one of the biggest red flags for a fool who thinks they are smart. Parties interested in intelligent discourse will avoid you, and lurking readers will cement their opion as opposite yours. It's the scream of a child rationalising rejection.

This is true in some forums, but not on this one. On this one, posting things that are even slightly non-consensus leads to grumbling and downvotes.

Far fewer people can downvote than can upvote, though. You generally have to post something a little more evocative than "slightly non-consensus".

But even taking your argument at face value, even if you take pride in having annoyed people for having expressed an opinion you find valuable, it's boring and petulant and ugly to then brag about it. Surely you can't be arguing for that kind of behavior.

Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#158
post #49
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fasting seems like a solution because in the fasted state your body doesn't need to produce insulin. Your body needs insulin to push fat into cells. Your pancreas gets a break, and perhaps sensitivity improves when you go on an extended insulin-free holiday.

Except there's literally a result out this week linking fasting (specifically 16+ hour intermittent fasting) with a 91% increase in cardiovascular disease deaths, which if it holds up would utterly swamp any incremental improvements to alzheimers risk. No free lunch in personal health decisions, alas. Really the only good advice is stick to well-established science, be healthy in general, avoid internet advice, and d…

Thank You

It seems counterintuitive, and opposite of what is promoted.

I'll have to check it out more.

But from AHA, this is enough of a dramatic result to at least follow up on.

8-hour time-restricted eating linked to a 91% higher risk of cardiovascular death

https://newsroom.heart.org/news/8-hour-time-restricted-eatin...

Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#159
post #40

As a former Alzheimer's researcher, this is a big fucking deal. It puts together a lot of clues (APOE risk, microglia) and finds a theory that makes a lot of sense. All around the world, there are labs pulling late nights trying to figure out how to drug this.

What kind of fat is it? Like is it possible to avoid by avoiding too much fat?

Probably the opposite. Eating more "good" fat assuming you then have less sugar. Nuts, olive oils, omega-3s, etc.

Re: Root cause of Alzheimer's may be fat buildup in brain cells, research suggests

#160

So, is this why fasting sometimes seems like a solution? Edit: Oversimplified, but: Less, calories, less fat? Excess calories, more fat?

As per the Nature paper, this is an immune system mechanism with these particular “fat” particles presumed to help fend off an invading microbe. So no, it doesn’t matter how much fat or not you have to begin with as you cannot as easily reduce the immune system ability to do its work, and even if you did somehow manage to stop this particular immune response it is far from clear if you would get more or less dementia as a result.
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