As I understand it, Greece's problem is the wealthy completely dodge taxes, putting the burden on everyone else (or collapsing the government). It's an idealized version of America's wealthy dream-state.
The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
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Re: The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
#92It's very easy to blame simple people for the mess that capitalism created. "They spent a lot". Really? Who's to say? Did you ever wonder how much is spend on high tech weapons by your government? Do you KNOW what YOUR country's public debt is? Are YOU responsible for it (because you're gonna be held accountable for it either way). As easy as it is to buy mainstream media "analysis" it's also just that - mainstream,…
It's very easy to blame simple people for the mess that capitalism created.
Greece has a problem with government debt. How do you blame capitalism for this?
What happens in Greece is that we're taking loans upon loans to save defaulted banks that are based mainly in Greece, Germany and France.
If that is the only problem, why not simply default and let the banks fail?
Re: The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
#93I'm biased, I'm German.
But last year I think there was an article linked that explained how Germans have more productivity output per year than US Americans, although Germans have more holidays.
Said that, it's obviously a generalization. I'd think it's very company specific, and depends on many factors, especially the number of "meetings" one has to attend, those that are not work because they have no agenda, no action items, no decisions made etc.
Re: The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
#94I am not surprised that the most hard working populations are the most unproductive. The mythical man-hour doesn't just apply to software.
Re: The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
#95Very interesting to see that Norway is the 2nd most productive, but ranks 3rd in fewest hours worked! Makes me feel good about leaving work at four. ;)
OTOH I rather have a flexible work schedule than a strict-but-short one ("you always have to get here at 8 and leave at 4").
Re: The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fine, I never said borrowing was wrong. I said borrowing without having means to pay back is wrong. You almost make it look as though Greece did nothing wrong in borrowing, but now Germany and alike are committing a huge sin in not bailing them out. UK, Italy and all those countries you mentioned might definitely have the same debt. But the situation there is different because those people have a way of paying their…
Germany has massive part on it by enforcing such shockingly low borrowing rates across the Eurozone. It completely destroyed countries with immature Real Estate landscapes, countries used to high inflation rates that collectively shot themselves in the foot. Germany and France took no hostages when they were stagnating and failed to meet EU requirements. They gave absolutely no regard to these countries and now they…
As this pops up everywhere, could you please cite a source from e.g. a ECB protocol or otherwise how Germany "controls the rates" or "enforces shockingly low borrowing rates" in violation of the ECB charta?
The ECB back then set rates in accordance with inflation, e.g. to keep it low. That's the charta of the ECB. When a high inflation country joins a construct that has a goal of keeping inflation low, then yes you have a problem if you do not change. But I'm not sure Greece e.g. was forced to join a low inflation construct.
From the ECB homepage:
"The ECB is the central bank for Europe's single currency, the euro. The ECB’s main task is to maintain the euro's purchasing power and thus price stability in the euro area."
(Beside the obvious fact that "shockingly low borrowing rates" would lead to high inflation, which could then not lead to "countries used to high inflation rates that collectively shot themselves in the foot.")
(PS: I'm biased as I'm German)
Re: The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fine, I never said borrowing was wrong. I said borrowing without having means to pay back is wrong. You almost make it look as though Greece did nothing wrong in borrowing, but now Germany and alike are committing a huge sin in not bailing them out. UK, Italy and all those countries you mentioned might definitely have the same debt. But the situation there is different because those people have a way of paying their…
Spending more than you earn can sometimes be quite healthy, for an individual, for a company, and for an economy. It's called investment. An example: when you buy take a mortgage to buy a house several times your annual income, you've spent more than you earned. Typically you need two or three decades to pay off the extra money you spent.
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Re: The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
#98I don't know about Greece, but I grew up in Portugal, and I suspect there are some similarities. People in Portugal "work" long hours. But they also work in a very infective way: long useless meetings, everything requires lengthy social interactions, bizantine bureaucracy, too many managers for too few real workers and so on. There are complex cultural problems that cannot be expressed by such simplistic metrics (and…
I'm also from Portugal but I have been working in London for some time now. Curiously, I don't see much of a difference besides now working only from 9 to 6 instead of working from 9 to 10. Same useless meetings, a very long line for coffee all day long, everyone is a manager, etc. My opinion is a simple one: some countries sell stuff others want, some don't. We were just unlucky and not smart enough to value our geo…
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Re: The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
#99Fun thing that this article doesn't mention: in Germany it is very, very common to work extra hours that are not paid and not in the books. This is particularly true for high profile jobs.
> in Germany it is very, very common to work extra hours that are not paid and not in the books I am working in Germany and what are you talking about? More specifically which industry? The employment laws here are so ridiculously pro-employee that I basically need to "excuse" and justify myself if I was to work more than X hours a week. And typically, at least in IT, a certain amount of overtime (or a "flat charge")…
I think it's more common with larger companies and the corresponding 9-to-5 attitude.
I work for as architect for a small consultancy/software-development company and I'm paid the same salary no matter how many hours I actually work. Contract says 40 h/week, but there are weeks when I reach the 40 on wednesday. MIght be able to work less than 40 hours when times are not as stressful (haha), but the average has to be clearly above 40 h/week.
Re: The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two points: 1. I wouldn't think for a second that Michael Portillo is a reasonable unbiased analyst here. 2. How do we prevent individuals from spending recklessly? Seems like government is going to have to play a large part in that story. On (2), it's not an issue of blame, and personally I'm not interested so much in who to 'blame' - we're doing economics, not philosophical ethics. Rather it's an issue about what w…
2 is a good question. One answer is presumably mandatory payments for social security and health insurance. You can't spend money recklessly anymore that you gave to the taxman.
On the other hand, if you can't save money, spending it recklessly is much more likely. Politicians who choose not to spend money now cannot expect to choose to spend it later (due to the uncertainty of being reelected), which creates a strong incentive to just spend it. It would be a rare politician who could be elected repeatedly while running on a policy of saving money for the next generation's government to spend.