31–40 of 152 posts
That number is (more than) a bit misleading. I don't know where OECD pulls those numbers but it certainly doesn't feel as if Greeks work more than the average european. Shops dont work on sundays, public services are open for only a few hours a day, banks close at 2 etc. Underproductivity is a major issue, most of the work of public services is unnecessary red tape that could be easily automated if the government was…
Fun thing that this article doesn't mention: in Germany it is very, very common to work extra hours that are not paid and not in the books. This is particularly true for high profile jobs.
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Are you referring to this documentary? Michael Portillo's Great Euro Crisis From http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01hllyd Self-confessed Eurosceptic Michael Portillo visits debt-stricken Greece. He believes that the euro crisis must have shaken the Greeks' faith in Europe's single currency and wonders if there'll be a desire to revert to the free-floating drachma. In Athens he meets everyone from a destitute young fa…
Yes that's the documentary, Its a nice one to watch. What I realized about the entire chapter of Greece was that you can't blame the government and corporations for all the problems in the world. Sometimes we as individuals need to step back and think of our own financial future. Reckless spending on our behalf without planning for the future are disastrous. Savings and investments are important for our future. And w…
1. I wouldn't think for a second that Michael Portillo is a reasonable unbiased analyst here.
2. How do we prevent individuals from spending recklessly? Seems like government is going to have to play a large part in that story.
On (2), it's not an issue of blame, and personally I'm not interested so much in who to 'blame' - we're doing economics, not philosophical ethics. Rather it's an issue about what we do about it. Simply telling people to act differently is unlikely to be a sensible solution.
That number is (more than) a bit misleading. I don't know where OECD pulls those numbers but it certainly doesn't feel as if Greeks work more than the average european. Shops dont work on sundays, public services are open for only a few hours a day, banks close at 2 etc. Underproductivity is a major issue, most of the work of public services is unnecessary red tape that could be easily automated if the government was…
When Germans come in to work, there is surprisingly little socialising. When they work, they work hard. Also, the difference in hours worked is probably solely due to the difference in the number of part timers between the countries. 2000 hours per year (avg. Greek hours per year) is only 38 hours per week.
As easy as it is to buy mainstream media "analysis" it's also just that - mainstream, meaning that it is designed to keep the powers that be from safe from criticism.
What happens in Greece is that we're taking loans upon loans to save defaulted banks that are based mainly in Greece, Germany and France. Tax evasion, porsches' and the rest are dirty propaganda designed to hide the crime that's being perpetuated. Saving failed capitalists (mainly banks up to now) by robbing the laymen.
As for the tax evasion bit, it's mostly true if we are to speak for a small fraction of the Greek population - namelly the rich and superrich Greeks. All the rest are paying our due for nothing - meaning that our taxes (for me it's about 50% of my gross income) are used to refinance loans and not a single dime goes to roads,health or education.
Bear also in mind that for two decades every banks were all over people to persuade them to get loans (sth like the mortgage situation in USA) which were used to buy shit from Germany and France (that's why many say that these countries surplasses are European south deficits). This was evident at a state level too with huge amounts going to buy arms from these two countries. Arms that were of no use.
Anyway, this issue is far from simple and what's more you, no matter where you're from, are far from just spectators. What happens in Greece (namely the ripoff of any hind of welfare state + the death of the middle class) is just an experiment to be continued in virtually every western country. It's the way that western capitalism wants to proceed - and bear in mind that what really counts is workers wages (that have been slashed in Greece since the begining of all this crisis) - many big heads waiving their finger have told us Greeks, that the only way to get back to economic development again is to be OK with chinese salaries. We're trying to take that fingers and put them back where they belong and maybe you should try thinking your line of defense against those failed bussinessmen and politicians.
A Greek.
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I don't think that's why these stats are interesting. There seems to be a stereotype of lazy Greeks being bailed out by hard-working Germans. These OECD stats (which I originally checked out after an episode of Radio Open Source featuring economist Mark Blyth) show that this is just another example of an ugly, incorrect stereotype.
Although I agree that its wrong to say All Greeks are lazy, Its also true that they didn't manage their money well. Now I'm not too much of an economist. But I would be annoyed if my money is used to bail out somebody for mistakes they made.
Interesting that we rarely look at who lent Greece such vast quantities in the first place.
Well BBC ran a show last night. And it did show the some reasons why Greece is such trouble today. It turns out people spent like crazy, far beyond their means. Things like electricians driving Porsche's and High End Mercedes cars. All of it imported from Germany. When a nation full of people with government included involves in such spending it is but other wise natural that they price for it later on. The anchor di…
The number of Greek electricians driving Porsche is not very high. Also the German exports to Greece are also not that big (from both sides). In reality Greece imports from all over the place. It also imports a lot of energy sources. It has a huge military with costly imports (parts from that also from Germany). Also the money does not come especially from Germany. If you look at the banks, they are from France, Ital…
From http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/9/49503 :
Larisa, which has about 250,000 inhabitants, is the capital of the agricultural region of Thessaly in central Greece.
Larissa “is the talk of the town in Stuttgart, the cradle of the German automobile industry, and, particularly, in the Porsche headquarters there”, since it “tops the list, world-wide, for the per-capita ownership of Porsche Cayennes”.
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Well, for sake of argument, if it all went on buying Porsches and Mercedes then it's pretty easy to tell where the money went....
Right, It went to Germany. But you can't hold them responsible for this mess. Germany is a export based country, they are also more productive than the Greeks. They have managed their money well. The only thing is that the Euro facilitated such things more easily. But Germany can't be blamed for it. Imagine you go to a supermarket and buy like crazy. You know you don't have a way of paying it back, but you keep buyin…
Greece could be the most productive country in the EU and their government would still be in dire straits. Tax evasion is endemic. It doesn't matter how much people are making if almost nobody is paying their taxes. The Greek government has started cracking down, but Greek disrespect for taxation has been building for generations and won't die easily.
It was (and mostly still is) so easy to avoid taxes in Greece that it's fair to say the burden is on the government more than the people. I believe it's difficult to make people tax-conscious when they see that it's so easy for everyone around them to steal. The tax authorities here are corrupt, underqualified, and have a very low rate of tax collection. It's so bad that it had better be replaced altogether.