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Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

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Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#231

Post by AnthonyMouse »

k8sToGo wrote: post #221
jameshart wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The control scheme has nothing to do with the efficiency of the car. Whether one pedal or two, it’s going to use the same power for the same acceleration/cruise/deceleration profile. Unless you’re concerned about the energy usage in your ankle when maintaining pressure on the gas with your foot?

It has to do with that your feet or legs are not super accurate machines that can keep the pedal at 0 regen and 0 acceleration for long enough time.

There is a decent sized gap between 0 acceleration and 0 regen equal to the amount of energy required for the vehicle to maintain speed against rolling resistance and air resistance. Anywhere inside that gap, you're not using regenerative braking at all, you're just decelerating from not supplying enough power to maintain speed.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#232

Post by rypskar »

Terr_ wrote: post #176
beezle wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inspection station in my state made comment to me that EVs are failing inspection for rusted brake components because of their heavy use of regen. Add to cost of ownership.

> Inspection station in my state made comment to me that EVs are failing inspection for rusted brake components because of their heavy use of regen. Are you suggesting some metal brake components have unusual rust because of disuse , where they aren't being used regularly enough for friction to "clean" their surfaces? Otherwise I don't see how regenerative breaking could cause rust, since the braking force is supplie…

>>Are you suggesting some metal brake components have unusual rust because of disuse

Yes, the brake disks, especially if you drive some place where they salt the roads during the winter. I had to change the rear disks on my hybrid after two years because they started to fall apart from rust, now I have learned to do some heavy braking at the end of trips to clean and dry the disks

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#233

Post by hamandcheese »

jasonfarnon wrote: post #134
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

If you looked nationally at wealth vs proximity to traffic, I would wager the "people with the least amount of money" are not the closest to traffic; are you suggesting otherwise? If only because of all the wealth that has come to cities in the last 20-25 yrs. Within that already wealthy urban demo I would agree, yes, the poorer wealthy are nearer to urban highways and thoroughfare than the wealthier wealthy.

For a very concrete example of this, within a city, see I-580 vs I-880 in Oakland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_580_(California)#Tr...

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#234

Post by highwaylights »

autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

> before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know

I’d be careful with assuming that. A lot of consumables are imported directly from China, and the cost of car maintenance can be eye-watering, so it’s exactly the type of part I’d expect to be procured as cheaply as possible.

People care about the brand of tyres on their car, I don’t even know of any brake pad brands.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#236

Post by Gabrys1 »

NoPicklez wrote: post #198

The credibility and purpose of the article was shot down when they said the problem would be getting WORSE with EV's. Firstly, the problem becomes less of an issue with EV's and they shared no evidence to support that moving to EV's would increase non-exhaust based pollution. Lastly, there have been plenty of studies over the last two decades which show charged particles from car brakes.

There's probably more tyre pollution from EVs to be fair.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#237

Post by pastage »

kube-system wrote: post #197
bluSCALE4 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most drivers are virtue signalers. Until we have eco batteries or hydrogen buses and trains are the only real eco solution.

Unfortunately buses and trains are only viable above a certain density, and many communities exist configured in such a way that they are intentionally low density. While metal mining might have an environmental impact, abandoning millions of existing homes and building new ones in cities not only also has a large environmental impact (concrete also isn't great for the environment), but it is also politically, econom…

Busses are viable as long as you make them viable. If you have a busstation at a 1 km distance you can make it viable in most places even with the mega sprawl of the US. The economical incentives of a car economy is perverse it is the tradgedy of the commons distilled.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#238

Post by riffraff »

highwaylights wrote: post #234
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

> before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know I’d be careful with assuming that. A lot of consumables are imported directly from China, and the cost of car maintenance can be eye-watering, so it’s exactly the type of part I’d expect to be procured as cheaply as possible. People care about the brand of tyres on their car, I don’t eve…

DBrembo or AP Racing are somewhat well known brake manufacturers, but only matter for sport cars/motorbikes.

OTOH I don't think most people care about tires either.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#239

Post by [deleted] »

carlmr wrote: post #227
onion2k wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars can help with some of the problems but don't solve all of them. In the case of brake dust specifically, presumably electric cars are worse because they're quite a bit heavier than ICE cars.

What you're saying is completely true for tire particulates, but if you drive an electric car normally you're almost never engaging the brakes. Since almost all normal amount of braking is in the envelope of where your regeneration braking can take all of the power. This counts even for hybrids though. A friend of mine had to replace his brakes after over 10 years and 180,000km on his Prius for the first time. Not be…

[deleted]

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#240

Post by alex_duf »

onion2k wrote: post #225
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

Electric cars can help with some of the problems but don't solve all of them. In the case of brake dust specifically, presumably electric cars are worse because they're quite a bit heavier than ICE cars.

I'm getting sick and tired of hearing this argument being repeated over and over again.

Electric car use regenerative braking. Yes they're heavier but their brakes barely get used...

They only get used at very low speed to bring the vehicle to a stop (low energy), or in case of emergency braking.

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