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Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

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Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#161

Post by [deleted] »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #154
samatman wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation: you have no coherent response to what I said, and don't like that, so you figured a bit of snark might recover some dignity. It's better to simply not reply.

I gave you my argument in detail above with sources that companies routinely collude in anti-consumer ways, but you decided to strick your fingers in your ears and sing "lalala I don't believe you" . Therefore I have no more replies for you to protect my sanity. Feel free to believe whatever you want to believe, just leve me be, i have no duty to waste my time to change your opinion of something you're fixated on.

[deleted]

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#162

Post by aaronax »

Tade0 wrote: post #157
petre wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too complicated, why not use a magnetic brake instead? The electric motor on hybrids essentially operates like a magnetic brake during regen. Works in 80% of the scenarios and for the rest of 20% we can just use the regular brakes.

Or run the motor in reverse in the final stage of braking. I drive a hybrid and, when parking, switch between drive and reverse even while still rolling the opposite direction as it's easy for the motor to deal with such loads.

I do the same in ICE cars with automatic transmissions and it seems just fine. I think the torque converter handles the opposition elegantly.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#164

Post by recursive »

byw wrote: post #109
u320 wrote: post #3

Electric vehicles are heavier, which means they must spend more brake pads to stop. But they also use regenerative breaking, which reduces pad wear. So I'm not sure if they make it worse or not.

I wonder for drivers who drove with regen-only for too long, do they lose the reflex to hit the brake?

No. I do fine when I end up in a rental ICE. In my EV, I still use the brake when I need more stopping. If I zone out and forget I don't have regen, at some point, I'll notice I'm not slowing enough, and hit the brake, just like I would normally.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#165

Post by woodruffw »

jasonfarnon wrote: post #138
CharlesW wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6203a8.htm "In the United States, it is widely accepted that economically disadvantaged and minority populations share a disproportionate burden of air pollution exposure and risk (26,27). A growing body of evidence demonstrates that minority populations and persons of lower socioeconomic status experience higher residential exposure to traffic and traffic-related air pollu…

It's not surprising that minorities would be exposed to more traffic given the proportion that live in urban areas, but that doesn't rule out that the poorest in the country (minorities and whites) are not the most exposed. I guess my basic question is, are the poorest people still living in city centers? In my city the central, densest areas became some of the wealthiest, the quieter outlying areas the poorest.

Why do you assume that fine particulate is at the highest in city centers? It's often higher than average, but the highest is frequently outside of the city center, where highways have been constructed through pre-existing, poorer neighborhoods. The South Bronx is the famous example of this[1].

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/04/new-york-sou...

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#166

Post by ipqk »

autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

And EVs make some problems worse, such as tire dust because they're heavier than an equivalent ICE car.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#167

Post by adonovan »

incompatible wrote: post #141

I wonder what the air quality is like in and around racing car circuits, given brake, tire, and exhaust pipe emissions.

It was especially terrible before 2006, which is when NASCAR's exemption to the lead ban finally expired, creating a perfect natural experiment to answer the question: how much did the health of people downwind of NASCAR arenas improve after the ban, and conversely, what was the dollar cost of the health externality of lead. Spoiler alert: more than $1000 / gram (approx. 1 tank of fuel).

https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/pol.20190654

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#168

Post by linksnapzz »

Karellen wrote: post #133
xdavidliu wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we remove tailpipe emissions, which are by far the largest im gonna need a source on your claim. heres a source that claims the opposite https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/07/0... > our brakes and tires isn’t benign, either. Tests by Emissions Analytics, an engineering consulting company based in England, found tires produce about 2,000 times more particle pollution by mass than tailpipes.

> tires produce about 2,000 times more particle pollution by mass than tailpipes. (emphasis mine) The fact that the majority of tailpipe pollution is not particulate means that tailpipe pollution can be the biggest problem we need to fix, even if it isn't the biggest particle pollution problem.

The majority of modern tailpipe "pollution" is CO2.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#169

Post by beezle »

daft_pink wrote: post #87

Just want to point out that most electric and hybrid vehicles use regenerative braking most of the time and only use real brakes at very slow speeds or in emergencies. So it might be totally misleading to say that electric vehicles are the problem, when they are probably the solution.

Inspection station in my state made comment to me that EVs are failing inspection for rusted brake components because of their heavy use of regen. Add to cost of ownership.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#170

Post by rjbwork »

ipqk wrote: post #166
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

And EVs make some problems worse, such as tire dust because they're heavier than an equivalent ICE car.

Yep. Pretty much any kind of wear and tear part that is on an EV wears worse compared to a similarly powerful ICE. It's probably a wash or better because they don't use petroleum products for propulsion, but it is definitely a thing that needs to be considered. EV's are not some kind of panacea.
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