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Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

cnn.com

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Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What would that reason be?

Pilots are unionized partially so that they have the ability to push back on unsafe practices without retaliation from management. Federal law designates the Pilot in Command as having sole authority for the safe operation of their aircraft, and the union side of things keeps management from being able to retaliate against a pilot for exercising that authority in ways management might find inconvenient.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#112
post #90
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe what most people are truly concerned is the Boeing Narrative? Increasingly more than just a narrative

Do you know that or do you just feel it? If you know it, how do you know? Is that knowledge reflected in the reporting? If you camped avherald watching for incidents, and you had an inciting incident like the door plug (indisputably a major story!) to start from, could you create the same narrative for Bombardier? I think you could.

Does it matter? At this stage it's just ridiculous that there's no more uproar towards Boeing or even direct intervention into it. Maybe because it's one of the 2 disfuntional members of the duopoly at the foundation of global air transit with massive geopolitical consequences if major changes are suggested.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#113
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These issues are killing people in hundreds. You are right that national security is more important, but world is not binary. Current execs could easily say rot in jail while company keeps churning whatever hardware military wants, nothing mutually exclusive there. Now what will happen with civilian avionics is another story, for me they lost my trust for good but I & my family choices are insignificant forces on the…

I'm not suggesting national security is more important, just that Boeing's leadership won't learn any lessons from this as they'll keep getting bailed out with sweet MIC contracts. I would probably feel much safer if we didn't have a MIC that is constantly trying to play a nuclear game of chicken with political adversaries. 'Russia will not use nukes because Russia has not used nukes' - what kind of effed up logic is…

I prefer the term "national insecurity". The use of "national security" usually makes more sense if you would add the in prefix.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#114
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with zero controls, and even if one or more of the various computers decided spontaneously to restart, I would expect the plane to continue flying the way it did before the incident rather than going into an (apparently) uncommanded descent? I mean, we had that with the 737 MAX, so I wouldn't rule it out, but it sounds suspiciously like the pilot messed up and is trying to blame the airplane. However I'm no spec…

But what control input could a pilot make that abruptly produces significant negative gees for just a couple of seconds? Other than the bland references to "technical issue" it sounds like clear air turbulence. (Although one possible mistake could be that the weather radar did warn of it and the pilot didn't react?)

Weather radar cannot see clear air turbulence. Essentially you are relying on forecasts and pilot reports.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#115

A blip of zero controls - not ideal! Although hearsay from a passenger hardly sounds reliable. The thing I'm wondering is: are quality issues happening elsewhere? Or are we caught in an anti-Boeing hype cycle? I'm skeptical whenever the media really grabs hold of a narrative that's so one-sided.

The problem with engineering defense in depth is that systems naturally evolve to "spend" that defense in depth. Constant, active vigilance is required to maintain a culture that honors and preserves defense in depth rather than exploiting it. It isn't that hard to believe that Boeing has failed to preserve that culture. A company like Boeing would be constantly fighting against multiple forces pushing them to exploit the defense in depth rather than maintain it. Some of them, like the Harvard MBA mindset, are very difficult for large companies to resist. Short term costs that result in long term benefits are a hard sell to almost anyone, but current American business culture is definitely not strong against that.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#116
post #88
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flight control incidents that cause injuries are not hard to find on avherald. I guess I'm not saying it isn't worth reporting. Before the Boeing Narrative set in, these kinds of stories did get reported! But now they're tied into this long-running Boeing arc, and it's frustrating because there isn't enough in the story to know what's really going on.

Could you link a few with injuries anywhere near this size? I feel like that’d be national news, so it’s surprising to hear it’s happening often.

Not a control issue but there was a Hawaiian flight that had 36 injuries from turbulence. Edit to add: it would be unsurprising if turbulence was the cause here and the passenger quoted had their facts wrong.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/18/us/hawaiian-airlines-injuries...

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#117
post #112
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know that or do you just feel it? If you know it, how do you know? Is that knowledge reflected in the reporting? If you camped avherald watching for incidents, and you had an inciting incident like the door plug (indisputably a major story!) to start from, could you create the same narrative for Bombardier? I think you could.

Does it matter? At this stage it's just ridiculous that there's no more uproar towards Boeing or even direct intervention into it. Maybe because it's one of the 2 disfuntional members of the duopoly at the foundation of global air transit with massive geopolitical consequences if major changes are suggested.

It depends on whether you want to respond to stories like this with advocacy or understanding.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#118
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now Boeing gets much more attention on anything that goes bad. Can't but say the company brought it on themselves. That being said that was a noteworthy incident regardless.

Nothing I'm saying has anything to do with sympathy for Boeing.

I don't see how I implied it.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#119

They're down ~27% YTD. Something tells me that there's going to be a "come to Jesus" meeting soon in the C-suite's future that results in the deployment of a golden parachute.

There will be a scapegoat, and then big bonuses for everyone else for eliminating the bad seed, at the expense of the workers who won't get raises to pay for it all.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#120
I remember being on a 787 not long after they were introduced and after boarding, we had a 20 minute delay because of an equipment problem that required "rebooting the plane" (the pilot's words). They did a full power shutoff, the cabin lights went off for a few minutes (and the cabin quickly warmed up because the A/C was off and the electronic window shades turned clear), then about 20 minutes later the pilot said everything was good and we were ready for departure. The rest of the flight was uneventful.
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