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Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

cnn.com

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Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#91
post #71

Probably some software written in C++ by one of those "I never write bugs" types followed by a hardware watchdog thankfully catching it and rebooting. Maybe its time to rethink software safety and verification there of? Safety in software is a bit of a joke. Document the behavior, its safe! Yeah no.

Where did you gain this insight into how the plane’s software was built?

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#92
post #76

If you watch The Aviation Herald, this kind of reporting feels a little like trying to write news stories off VAERS data. Crazy shit is happening more or less all the time in planes; the idea isn't that nothing ever goes wrong, but that layered controls prevent injuries or hull losses. It's not that there necessarily isn't a thru-line to these stories. And I read "Flying Blind" like everyone else and share the popula…

Right now Boeing gets much more attention on anything that goes bad.

Can't but say the company brought it on themselves.

That being said that was a noteworthy incident regardless.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#93
post #59
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> using parts from scrap bins This is a good micro-example. Scrap bins! Sounds horrible! But is it? Do you know? Or is it just common practice? Is it called a scrap bin in the media to drive a narrative, when really it's just a parts bin like any other? We don't know.

I visited the Airbus facility in Hamburg, about 20 years ago. They showed us lots of "scrap bins" at the various production lines. And "scrap bins" is what they called those indeed.

I particularly recall one with titanium (AFAIR) Hi-Lok bolts[1] that didn't pass the xray for defects. They told us those would be melted.

They looked flawless and were all brand new, nicely anodized. We were allowed to grab a few each, as souveniers. These are not cheap (I think the guys said they cost around 10 EUR each, at the time, but I may misremember) and a plane uses a shitload of them.

Now lets say you're out for whatever reason. That would halt your production line. If your safety culture is shitty, you may decide to just use those Hi-Loks that passed xray with 95% or whatever threshold suits you overcoming your shortage ...

And the above sounds to me like that's what the whisteblower suggested happened at Boeing.

[1] https://www.lisi-aerospace.com/en/product/hi-lok-and-hi-lite...

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't this this allegedly happened. What authorities are saying Boeing killed a whistleblower?

The whistleblower was found dead in their car of an 'apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound'. Seems extremely unlikely that they would decide to kill themselves after 32 years at Boeing and deciding to blow the whistle. "Barnett, who spent decades working for Boeing at its plants in Everett, Wash., and North Charleston, S.C., had repeatedly alleged that Boeing's manufacturing practices had declined — and that rather…

I can see a lifer, someone who've spent their whole life at a single company, reacting this way. Their identity is tied so closely to their employer that having to "blow the whistle" probably feels like a terrible betrayal against the company.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#95
In the Air France flight 11 [0] situation the pilots thought they were having instrument and control issues, they had to go around, and there was much panic in the cockpit. It turned out the entire thing was pilot induced and the aircraft was fine. Because of Boeing's massive failures on the minds of everyone it'll be interesting to see if this was truly an instrumentation failure or something else.

[0] https://simpleflying.com/air-france-boeing-777-serious-incid...

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#96
post #76

If you watch The Aviation Herald, this kind of reporting feels a little like trying to write news stories off VAERS data. Crazy shit is happening more or less all the time in planes; the idea isn't that nothing ever goes wrong, but that layered controls prevent injuries or hull losses. It's not that there necessarily isn't a thru-line to these stories. And I read "Flying Blind" like everyone else and share the popula…

Right now Boeing gets much more attention on anything that goes bad. Can't but say the company brought it on themselves. That being said that was a noteworthy incident regardless.

Nothing I'm saying has anything to do with sympathy for Boeing.

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#97

I'm skeptical of this account - Newton's First Law says that an object in motion stays in motion. Losing instruments for a second doesn't cause a change in momentum - that would have needed to be a stall, a change in trim, or an external weather event such as a downdraft. A stall would have been accompanied by a stall recovery procedure involving attitude + thrust changes, and nobody seems to be reporting that in the…

Murphy's law, "anything that can go wrong (eventually) will go wrong". Gusts triggering a short that blocks out fly-by-wire would be even more worrying than poor coding. You know landings generally have lots of gusts and would be a terrible time to locked out.

Better make sure nothing can gonwrobg then with robust systems

Re: Pilot of Boeing flight says he lost control after instrument failure

#98
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is worthy of reporting. 50+ people were injured, one is in severe condition.

Flight control incidents that cause injuries are not hard to find on avherald. I guess I'm not saying it isn't worth reporting. Before the Boeing Narrative set in, these kinds of stories did get reported! But now they're tied into this long-running Boeing arc, and it's frustrating because there isn't enough in the story to know what's really going on.

Multiple whistleblowers have been raising concerns about Boeing safety and build quality issues for several years, so for you to say "so what, there have been issues on Boeing planes for several years" actually reinforces the "Boeing narrative". If there are multiple people on the inside raising alarm bells, there probably is some substance there. Finally the problems are getting big enough that they can't just be swept under the rug anymore.
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