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Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

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Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#101

Post by Ekaros »

cgeier wrote: post #95
sva_ wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont really know much of anything about aviation, other than being a passenger, but I feel like taking off and landing is still something that needs a pilot. I've been on some rough landings, and I don't think ML is quite there yet to do it.

You don't need ML to do this, there are already auto landing (and auto take off) systems that work very well. The hardest part is taxiing on the airport and taking part in air control procedures doesn't work at all AFAIK.

And for taxiing hard part is likely not moving the plane, but not getting in a way of anyone else. You really don't want to be at wrong part of runway at wrong time.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#103

Post by paulmd »

Ekaros wrote: post #101
cgeier wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need ML to do this, there are already auto landing (and auto take off) systems that work very well. The hardest part is taxiing on the airport and taking part in air control procedures doesn't work at all AFAIK.

And for taxiing hard part is likely not moving the plane, but not getting in a way of anyone else. You really don't want to be at wrong part of runway at wrong time.

Ground movements and runway clearances are still very manual processes unfortunately, and mistakes happen especially in high task-load situations or poor visibility or flight number collisions etc. The safe part about being in the airplane is actually being in the air, lol - once you push back you are at fairly elevated statistical risk until you’ve got some altitude. Takeoff/landing are high risk and there’s a lot of people and a lot of chances for mistakes on the tarmac.

There are statistically an enormous number of ground movements carried out safely but boy does the potential body count get big with runway incursion scenarios. Two 757s colliding is a lot of people, and in high-energy scenarios at least one of the aircraft isn’t walking away. You can be doing nothing wrong and someone just landings on your taxiway etc. The close calls are terrifying.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#104

Post by Sammi »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #92
theoreticalmal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the worst of both worlds, I would (and do) rather just drive “manually”

Driving cross country in a car is actually the worst when you're in stop and go traffic, or cars keep slowing down and then speeding up. I can't wait to get my hands on adaptive cruise control because I get so aggravated and tired from having to shift and adjust speed. If I can just sit in one position and listen to comedy podcasts and audio books I do so much better

I finally got a car with adaptive cruise control and lane assist a couple of years ago. It is the best. Driving feels relaxing. I actually feel less fatigued. I can just listen to music /podcasts /audiobooks and not care about how others are driving. Feels like sitting in the passenger seat and watching the road.

I wouldn't feel safe if I wasn't listening to something that kept me engaged though. I would totally nod off.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#105

Post by gnyman »

ephimetheus wrote: post #100
gnyman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small anecdote, I learned/realised this when visiting CERN (many years ago) and seeing someone in the control room playing a computer game on a laptop next to his big displays. So I asked and they said something along the lines that yes, it's allowed because otherwise the people would fall asleep, especially during the night shifts when their job is just to sit there and let the experiment run an be ready to react…

So we’re actually being told not to do this, even on night shifts, but I don’t think it’s actually being enforced. I did to some work on my PhD thesis while on shift, though.

Ok, thanks for the updated info, maybe it changed, it was over 10 years ago

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#106

Post by bfeist »

randmeerkat wrote: post #74
kalleboo wrote: post #63

The Guardian article [0] mentions > One of the pilots had not rested adequately on the night before the flight, according to the report. > “The second-in-command had one-month-old twin babies. His wife took care of the babies and he assisted while at home,” the report said. More evidence of the importance of mandatory paternal leave. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/09/indonesia-open...

> More evidence of the importance of mandatory paternal leave. With negative population growth being such a concern I’m really surprised that there’s not far reaching, comprehensive, pro-family policies being enacted. Society seems stuck in the “productivity” graveyard spiral.

Where is negative population growth a concern? I’m concerned about the opposite.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#107

Post by manfre »

tasuki wrote: post #96
dataviz1000 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We passed an aircraft carrier going up the East Coast while they were doing exercises. They radioed us and made it clear not to come close to the ship. I have video of fighter jets doing low passes over our yacht every 15 minutes or so using us as a practice target. Going South once, as we came towards the inlet at Fernandina Beach on the Florida, Georgia line, a nuclear submarine was leaving port. I was at the helm…

This is all very interesting and completely foreign to me! > Coast Guard helicopter with a mounted machine gun pointed at me and a Coast Guard response (defender class) boat with a .50-caliber machine gun also fixed on me while they sat off our bow. Why'd they do that? > they said I should hold my position and not move. Why? > The sub came out with two large ships on each side with blast shields on the each ship. ...…

> why?

Safety and security. A small boat can be a threat and cause damage to a larger boat if you let it get close enough. Small boats can easily capsize if they get too close to a larger boat.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#108

Post by aaomidi »

eesmith wrote: post #94
dzhiurgis wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> still have to be 100% attentive. Starting absolutes is poor. This just an oxymoron. Highways are designed to take attention off. On a chill highway drive I’d guess most drivers are no more than 50% attentive, driver assist or not.

Perhaps you could interpret "100% attentive" as "at the same level of attentiveness as being without the current generation of 'self driving' technology"?

Yeah, pedantic attacks like this just end up trolling the conversation rather than helping it.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#109

Post by tim333 »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #62
amluto wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, but there are plenty of other options. For example, a dead-man switch could: Send an alert via transponders that it has been activated. Maintain level flight but avoid terrain. (After a waiting period in which a pilot can deactivate this feature.) Or descend to a safe altitude if cabin pressure is lost. Activate a mode in which the plane could be remotely flown or directed to land itself. Alert flight cr…

The existing action is to maintain current settings. A flight in Australia flew across the continent that way, after (theory says) somehow depressurizing during takeoff so everyone passed out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Australia_Beechcraft_King... IMO that story shows that unless you do the remote control option (which I see as unlikely) it doesn't matter what happens...what can anyone outside the plane do e…

Automatic landing is doable these days.

Re: Both pilots of an A320 fell asleep in the cockpit for 28 minutes

#110

Post by bufferoverflow »

pacifika wrote: post #102
bufferoverflow wrote: post #75

So we need an automatic AI system that will watch pilots and sound an alarm if it detects sleeping.

We can adapt that for software engineers to make sure they’re working!

Doesn't that already exist? My work laptop has all kinds of spyware installed. I assume they are watching all the time.
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