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My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

stallman.org

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Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#201

Post by ars »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #83
jrs235 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, what about the fact that if the woman knew the Privacy Policy was 3000 pages and in a binder (which she claimed to be aware of) and knowingly accepts a statement she strongly believes to be untrue? Is this enough to invalidate the "contract" because it is blatantly known that full disclosure and meeting of the minds has not been met? This also comes to mind during mortgages and car loans. Often the clos…

Also, what common binder can hold 3000 pages?

3000 is not the literal number, it just means "A lot" of pages.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#202

Post by ars »

techdmn wrote: post #43
jrs235 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, what about the fact that if the woman knew the Privacy Policy was 3000 pages and in a binder (which she claimed to be aware of) and knowingly accepts a statement she strongly believes to be untrue? Is this enough to invalidate the "contract" because it is blatantly known that full disclosure and meeting of the minds has not been met? This also comes to mind during mortgages and car loans. Often the clos…

I the first time I closed on a house, realizing ten minutes in that either I was going to be signing contracts without reading them, or everyone was going to be sitting around watching me read for three hours. There's a lot of pressure in a situation like that, even though I try never to sign anything without reading it.

Just let them know in advance, they'll either send them to you before, or schedule time for you to read them while they are doing other things.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#203

Post by kragen »

ge0rg wrote: post #38
StavrosK wrote: post #33

I don't know how it is in the US, but here (Greece), most people aren't aware that you can modify contracts, or even that they're binding. I've had various people come up to me with company offers and asking me to sign things, which, after I've read, I said, for example "I'm not authorizing you to use my email to send me things, so I'll strike this clause out". People (including the person who handed me the agreement…

"... so I'll strike this clause out" Unfortunately, this option is taken away from us in online transactions. There is no legally binding way to change the text of the contract, and you are even forced to tick these "I accept the terms of ..." check boxes before proceeding.

I edit online contracts this way all the time. Right-click in Chrome, "Inspect Element", right-click, "Edit element as HTML".

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#204

Post by lr »

fffggg wrote: post #200
lr wrote: post #132

Find a new doctor. I have never been to a doctor, dentist, etc., that did not have a copy of the privacy policy taped/laminated to the clipboard!!! Seriously, how hard can it be. She probably would have found the policy if Sallman had told her he was going to another doctor, and he was going to tell this doctor the reason why he left.

You haven't visited many doctors and/or have been very lucky and/or haven't been paying attention. I was referred to a specialist this week for a new injury. The specialist's office asked me to sign several standard looking forms, one of which had almost this exact language (you agree to the terms of our privacy policy). Then just today I was at the pharmacy and after swiping my credit card for payment I was faced wi…

My "Seriously, how hard can it be." comment was about clipping the privacy policy to the clipboard, not to finding a new doctor. Also, from what I can tell, Stallman lives in an urban area. My comments were directed at him.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#205

Post by sirclueless »

kragen wrote: post #203
ge0rg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... so I'll strike this clause out" Unfortunately, this option is taken away from us in online transactions. There is no legally binding way to change the text of the contract, and you are even forced to tick these "I accept the terms of ..." check boxes before proceeding.

I edit online contracts this way all the time. Right-click in Chrome, "Inspect Element", right-click, "Edit element as HTML".

I'd like to see someone argue that in court.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#206

Post by Tloewald »

vacri wrote: post #195
Tloewald wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but you specifically suggested Stallmsn was mistaken for saying something he didn't say. If you want to be pedantic, be correct.

Can you please quote me the line where I specifically say that? I said he might have made a mistake in the retelling of 'the story', not that he was the actor that said it was 3000 pages long.

"The privacy policy wasn't 3000 pages. Either Stallman didn't remember the story correctly…"

So if he was incorrect, about what was he incorrect? Nowhere does he say the document was 3000 pages long, he says he was told it was 3000 pages long (he may have been be embellishing, the person he was quoting may have been exaggerating, but he was not incorrectly stating the document to have been 3000 pages.

Yay, I finally didn't mistype his name.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#207

Post by Daniel_Newby »

quanticle wrote: post #199
gisikw wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your lawyer read something is no excuse for not also reading it yourself.

That makes about as much sense as, "Paying a developer to write your code is no excuse for not also writing it yourself." The lawyer is a profession. His or her job is to read and review contracts, just like my job is to write code. Does your boss rewrite every line of code you write? When you take your car to a mechanic, do you insist on re-doing all of the repairs yourself? So why are you insisting on rereading con…

The lawyer's job is to prevent legal mistakes, not business mistakes. Only you can look after your business interests.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#208

Post by smsm42 »

mbreese wrote: post #130
spolsky wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have a lawyer to represent you? That's their job... to make sure that the contract you're signing is OK. Actually reading a contract without knowledge of the law, case history, and background can get you into just as much trouble as not reading it at all. That's why you have lawyers review important contracts.

I completely agree. When I bought a house (and later sold it), the day before, we had the title company forward all of the documents to our lawyer to review. When he gave his okay, I felt perfectly comfortable signing multiple documents that I never read. For something like that, it's important to have someone with some knowledge go over things first. Was I really going to be in a position to slowly read over documen…

I remember when I bought a house I had to sign tens of such notices and notices about signing notices, etc. Worse yet, I was actually provided with all the documents I was supposed to review, and they literally were a pile several inches high. And most of it was completely 100% useless at worst and duplicating what my agent already told me about 10 times at best and what I already read about in various disclosure forms (which I had to sign too, of course). It took me hours to get through it and by the end of it my hand hurt from all signing I had to do. Some politicians did some major CYA work there, I'm sure.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#209

Post by vidarh »

nathanb wrote: post #185
ChuckMcM wrote: post #150

I find arguing with the functionaries at the desk is ineffective, however since they are simply 'doing what they are told' they will often do what you tell them too. I signed a privacy policy where it stipulated the company would pay me $5,000 for each occurrence that it shared any of my information. It went like this: Receptionist: "You need to sign this privacy consent form." Me: "I don't agree with that form so I…

If you tested that in court you would almost certainly find that the receptionist has not been granted the authority to enter the office into legally-binding contracts.

I don't think that's so much the point, though. It's a fun "hack". And while the receptionist may not have that authority, the end result was that he also did not sign their document, so he achieved his initial goal of not signing a document he did not agree to.

They have two choices: Treat him as if he signed nothing binding at all, or accept his version of the document.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#210

Post by NegativeK »

sirclueless wrote: post #205
kragen wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I edit online contracts this way all the time. Right-click in Chrome, "Inspect Element", right-click, "Edit element as HTML".

I'd like to see someone argue that in court.

It's come up on This Week in Law. Someone was sending back a modified EULA in the POST data.

The lawyers on the show mainly thought it was cute and not something that would be recognized in court.

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