My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie • Hacker News Board

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#191

Post by liber8 » Fri, May 11, 2012, 8:36 PM UTC

steve-howard wrote: post #154

spolsky wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have a lawyer to represent you? That's their job... to make sure that the contract you're signing is OK. Actually reading a contract without knowledge of the law, case history, and background can get you into just as much trouble as not reading it at all. That's why you have lawyers review important contracts.

How much would it cost to get a lawyer to go over some contracts with you and let you know what's in there that you don't want? I imagine it depends on the type of contract, but a guess would be helpful.

Depends on where you are. In SF, you're looking at a minimum of about $200 an hour (for a fairly inexperienced lawyer, who will take longer). If you want a 10 year lawyer who actually knows what he's doing, you're looking at about $300-$600 (depending on experience, what kind of firm he's at, etc.). Lawyers don't read much faster than you would, so you can basically do the math on what to expect, based on the size of the stack of documents you want read.

If it's a three page contract, and you don't have an existing relationship with the attorney, you'll probably just be charged a flat fee of a couple hundred bucks, or nothing, depending on what sort of other business you might bring in.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#192

Post by spinlock » Fri, May 11, 2012, 8:55 PM UTC

My doctor thinks I have high blood pressure because things like this really get under my skin. I - like Stalman - have a bad habit of arguing with the admitting nurse over stuff like this.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#193

Post by WiseWeasel » Fri, May 11, 2012, 9:00 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #178

WiseWeasel wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he didn't ask in the most tactful manner.

Sure, that's possible. But you have no evidence for it, and I find it ( cough ) rude to assume so, and then criticize him for it.

I merely bring up the possibility, and do not disagree with your point. I might also add that it is rude to assume the dentist acted inappropriately. In any case, we have very little information to work with.

As a rule of thumb, however, the wise one treads carefully when dealing with someone who is about to have her in a particularly vulnerable position.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#194

Post by spinlock » Fri, May 11, 2012, 9:14 PM UTC

chrisacky wrote: post #4

Could you imagine at the extremes if you had been refused treatment because of your refusal to sign this document, to which you knew to be untrue, and to which they could not provide you with the policy. I studied law for four years (haven't qualified) , but I'm still not even sure on the liability on this one (if there is any at all in this hypothetical). It just shows how bureaucratic everything has become when a p…

I've actually been denied treatment for exactly this reason.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#195

Post by vacri » Fri, May 11, 2012, 9:32 PM UTC

Tloewald wrote: post #160

vacri wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the downmod brigade would actually read what I wrote. I'm not calling Stallman a liar. I'm saying he may have made a mistake in telling the story. It happens. I also said that it was more likely that the receptionist made up the number to scare him off. If you read an article, the author is responsible for putting the words in it, whatever the original source is. The author can make mistakes, because authors a…

Yes but you specifically suggested Stallmsn was mistaken for saying something he didn't say. If you want to be pedantic, be correct.

Can you please quote me the line where I specifically say that? I said he might have made a mistake in the retelling of 'the story', not that he was the actor that said it was 3000 pages long.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#196

Post by lawnchair_larry » Fri, May 11, 2012, 9:47 PM UTC

7402 wrote: post #116

spolsky wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have a lawyer to represent you? That's their job... to make sure that the contract you're signing is OK. Actually reading a contract without knowledge of the law, case history, and background can get you into just as much trouble as not reading it at all. That's why you have lawyers review important contracts.

The first time I rented a car, I spent 10 minutes reading the rental agreement. I don't do that any more; I just glance at it and sign it. I am not a lawyer. Suppose a rental car matter ended up court. I would rather not have to say to the judge, "I spent 10 minutes thoughtfully reading and evaluating the contract, and after careful consideration decided to accept the agreement." I would rather be able to say, "Gee,…

I never accept the "standard contract" when it comes to employment or consulting gigs - then I always read carefully, propose alterations, and often talk to my lawyer.

Have you ever worked at a large company? Did this work?

I feel like at large companies, this would be like trying to modify the language of a car rental agreement, and the HR rep would just be confused.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#197

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 11, 2012, 10:02 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #122

rfugger wrote: post #120

I recently had a similar experience at my dentist's office. I was asked to sign a waiver of liability, presumably for insurance purposes. It asked me to state that I had been informed of the risks of the procedure (tooth removal), including a long list of possible bad outcomes. I asked the dentist about this, and she said not to worry, most of those couldn't happen here. So I asked her to please strike the ones that…

What a shame. On one hand I feel some compassion for the onerous regulations and malpractice issues that require medical practitioners to pay for very expensive legal requirements. On the other hand, they should follow their own policies without complaint!

[deleted]

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#198

Post by drumdance » Fri, May 11, 2012, 10:05 PM UTC

Contracts and legal notices are like code. They spend most of their effort worrying about edge cases.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#199

Post by quanticle » Fri, May 11, 2012, 10:32 PM UTC

gisikw wrote: post #109

spolsky wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have a lawyer to represent you? That's their job... to make sure that the contract you're signing is OK. Actually reading a contract without knowledge of the law, case history, and background can get you into just as much trouble as not reading it at all. That's why you have lawyers review important contracts.

Having your lawyer read something is no excuse for not also reading it yourself.

That makes about as much sense as, "Paying a developer to write your code is no excuse for not also writing it yourself."

The lawyer is a profession. His or her job is to read and review contracts, just like my job is to write code. Does your boss rewrite every line of code you write? When you take your car to a mechanic, do you insist on re-doing all of the repairs yourself? So why are you insisting on rereading contracts that your lawyer has already reviewed?

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#200

Post by fffggg » Fri, May 11, 2012, 10:43 PM UTC

lr wrote: post #132

Find a new doctor. I have never been to a doctor, dentist, etc., that did not have a copy of the privacy policy taped/laminated to the clipboard!!! Seriously, how hard can it be. She probably would have found the policy if Sallman had told her he was going to another doctor, and he was going to tell this doctor the reason why he left.

You haven't visited many doctors and/or have been very lucky and/or haven't been paying attention.

I was referred to a specialist this week for a new injury. The specialist's office asked me to sign several standard looking forms, one of which had almost this exact language (you agree to the terms of our privacy policy).

Then just today I was at the pharmacy and after swiping my credit card for payment I was faced with another dialog "I have read and understood the pharmacy's privacy policy"

It's not as simple as "find a new doctor." First of all, I'm on an HMO and my choices are very limited -- in most non-urban areas there may not be more than a single practice or hospital, which uses the same paperwork for all patients.

Am I supposed to put obtaining my pain medication, or potentially life-threatening care on hold while I hunt around for a new doctor? I've seen and signed similar policies while admitting my infant daughter to the ER with a 105 degree fever -- you ask how hard it can be? It is literally impossible. Obtaining health care services is not like shopping for a pair of shoes, and there are often no alternatives available.