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OpenAI and Elon Musk

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Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Email might already be 'culturally dead' though. I guess my nephew might have an email address for the occasional password recovery, but the idea of actually communicating over email with other humans might be completely alien to him ;) Similar in my current job btw.

Ok, I get how one might use a variety of other tools for informal communication, I don't really use e-mail for that any more either, but I'm curious, what else can you possibly use for work ? With the requirement that it must be easy to back up and transfer (for yourself as well as the organization), so any platforms are immediately out of question.

I see a difference with enforced email use and voluntary, for work. At my company everyone uses email because it is mandatory. Human-human conversation happen there without issues. But as soon as I try to contact some random company on email as an individual, like as a shop about product details or packaging, or contact some org to find out about services - it's dead silence in return. But when I find their chat/messenger they do respond to it. The only people still responding to emails from external sources in my experience are property agents, and even there the response time is slower than in chats.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically all wrong, except the Ford switching to planes and tanks bit. And you are aware, that France was a major biligerent in WW1, stopped Germany at Verdun and held more than half the Western Front, sucessfully after the race to the sea ended, together with Britain, for years before the US showed up? Or that the Ententene, without significant US participation, won the strategic victory that defeated Germa…

You can choose to remember the past any way you wish. Don’t be surprised when people start ignoring you because of your warped view on the world.

Not sure if you are talking to me or not, but I couldn't agree more.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#593
post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did Lehrer (?) sing about von Braun? "I make rockets go up, where they come down is not my department".

Don't say that he's hypocritical, Say rather that he's apolitical. "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department, " says Wernher von Braun.

That's the one, thank you!

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#595
This post is a lame PR stunt, which will only add fuel to the fire. It tries to portray openAI as this great bennefactor and custodian of virtue:

> “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...”

> I've seen you (and Sam and other OpenAI people) doing a lot of interviews recently extolling the virtues of open sourcing AI, but (...) There are many good arguments as to why the approach you are taking is actually very dangerous and in fact may increase the risk to the world

How lucky are we that openAI, in its infinite wisdom, has decided to shield us from harm by locking away its source code! Truly, our digital salvation rests in the hands of corporate benevolence!

It also employs outdated internal communication (selectively) to depict the other party as a pitiful loser who failed to secure openAI control and is now bent on seeking revenge:

> As we discussed a for-profit structure in order to further the mission, Elon wanted us to merge with Tesla or he wanted full control.

> Elon understood the mission did not imply open-sourcing AGI. As Ilya told Elon: “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...”, to which Elon replied: “Yup”. [4]

If their case to defend against Elon's action relies on his "Yup"from 2016, and justifications for being able to compete with Google, it's not a strong one.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that the alternatives are better than email (e.g. at my job, Slack has replaced email for communication, and Gitlab/JIRA/Confluence/GoogleDocs is used for everything that needs to persist). The focus has shifted away from email for communication (for better or worse).

A point that I don’t think is being appreciated here is that email is still fundamental to communication between organizations, even if they are using something less formal internally. One’s nephew might not interact in a professional capacity with other organizations, but many do.

B2C uses texting. Even if B uses email, C doesn't read it. And that is becoming just links to a webapp.

B2B probably still uses email, but that's terrible because of the phishing threat. Professional communication should use webapps plus notification pings which can be app notifications, emails, or SMS.

People to people at different organizations again fall back to texting as an informal channel.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reporting requirements are not going to save you from Chinese, North Korean, Iranian or Russian programmers just doing it. Or some US/EU based hackers that don't care or actively go against the law. You can rent large botnets or various pieces of cloud for few dollars today, doesn't even have to be a DC that you could monitor.

Sure, but China is already honestly more careful than America: the CCP really doesn't want competitors to power. They're very open to slowdown agreements. And NK, Iran and Russia honestly have nothing. The day we have to worry about NK ASI takeoff, it'll already long have happened in some American basement. So we just need active monitoring for US/EU data centers. That's a big ask to be sure, and definitely an invasi…

> The whole point is to play for time in the hopes that somebody comes up with a good idea for safety and we manage an actually aligned takeoff, at which point it's out of our hands anyways.

Given "aligned" means "in agreement with the moral system of the people running OpenAI" (or whatever company), an "aligned" GAI controlled by any private entity is a nightmare scenario for 99% of the world. If we are taking GAI seriously then they should not be allowed to build it at all. It represents an eternal tyranny of whatever they believe.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#598
post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still do not see the point that you are trying to make. Do you think that their current path is somehow constrained (instead of unconstrained) by a need to generate financial returns? I haven’t seen any evidence of a change to the core mission described in the statement.

Do you think the employees they've given PPUs to aren't expecting a financial return?

I don’t see how expecting a financial return is in conflict with the original mission statement. Of course the employees expect a financial return.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#599
post #13

Their evidence does a nice job of making Musk seem duplicitous, but it doesn't really refute any of his core assertions: they still have the appearance of abandoning their core mission to focus more on profits, even if they've elaborated a decent justification of why that's necessary to do. Or to put it more simply: here they explain why they had to betray their core mission. But they don't refute that they did betra…

This looks like one of the steps leading to the fulfilment of the iron law of bureaucracy. They are putting the company ahead of the goals of the company. "Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy…

> They are putting the company ahead of the goals of the company.

I don't follow your reasoning. The goal of the company is AGI. To achieve AGI, they needed more money. What about that says the company comes before the goals?

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "AI" in your comment with "human journalists" and it still holds largely true though. It's not like AI invented clickbait, though it might have mastered the art of it. The convincing bullshit problem does not stem from AI, I'd argue it stems from the interaction between ad revenue and SEO and the weird and unexpected incentives created in when mixing those 2. To put it differently, the problem isn't that AI w…

> I'd argue it stems from the interaction between ad revenue and SEO and the weird and unexpected incentives created in when mixing those 2. Personally, I highly dislike this handwaving of SEO. SEO is not some sinister agenda following secret cult trying to disseminate bullshit. SEO is just... following the rules set forth by search engines, which for quite a long time is effectively singlehandedly Google. Those "wei…

The explosion would be in BS articles about gardening, plus ads for whatever the user's profile says they are susceptible to.

SEO is gaming Google's heuristics. Google doest generate a perfect ranking according to Google human's values.

SEO gaming is much older than Google. Back when "search" was just an alphabetical listing of everyone in a printed book, we had companies calling themselves "A A Aachen" to get to the front of the book.

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