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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

91–100 of 660 posts

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#91

more evidence that a used Nissan Leaf is the ultimate driving machine.

That won’t for a round trip in most driver centric cities. Lucky for me my gf lived 25mi away and had a Leaf so whenever she came home after work or school she would have to charge it again before leaving. Who wants to do that in winter in the rain? Just stay the night!

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. For now, companies are experimenting with drive by wire. Don't think I like that concept.

Experimenting? It’s been around for a long time. My 1999 Jetta had it. It’s smoother and you can control the fuel adder on throttle opening from all angles. Sure, it’s not instant, but stabbing the gas in a non dbw is not great either. In electric cars there is no other way than dbw

A 1999 Jetta doesn't have steer-by-wire. Wikipedia says the first production car to have it was the 2013 Nissan Infiniti Q50.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. For now, companies are experimenting with drive by wire. Don't think I like that concept.

Experimenting? It’s been around for a long time. My 1999 Jetta had it. It’s smoother and you can control the fuel adder on throttle opening from all angles. Sure, it’s not instant, but stabbing the gas in a non dbw is not great either. In electric cars there is no other way than dbw

It's be really cool if there were some giant high power potentiometer connected directly from the batter to the motors in an EV. Just smash the pedal, see a blast of plasma and you take off. Just like slot cars. I can't see a single downside to this :p

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#94

Couldn't agree more. Tesla is the biggest violator. In new Teslas, they are removing physical stalks, so if you want to reverse the car, you have to use on-screen controls!

Everything I ever hear about Tesla's keeps getting worse and worse. How are they still in business and why does anyone buy one?

best electric cars in the business, though that gap is shrinking. their automotive infotainment ux is second to none. it's miles better than carplay.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything I ever hear about Tesla's keeps getting worse and worse. How are they still in business and why does anyone buy one?

Have you seen the other BEVs available in America? There really isn't much choice if you don't want an SUV -- your options are basically a Tesla or a Chevy Bolt.

Perhaps the BMW i4? https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/all-electric/i4/gran-coupe/o...

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#96
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? Yes: https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-F... Well ... "are" is kinda stretching it...

My 1995 Renault Clio had it as a button on the indicator stalk. Worked very well, in my view. Much easier than pressing the centre of the steering wheel. There's often no need to even move your hand!

That helps explain Paris drivers :D

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. For now, companies are experimenting with drive by wire. Don't think I like that concept.

Electronic power steering already exists. It's used in a lot of cars, and has been for at least 10 years. Your car may have one of these systems in it. In an electric power steering system there are steering angle and torque sensors that know what direction the wheel is turned an how hard it has turned, and this is connected to an electric motor that powers the gears to move the steering rack. There are still regulat…

> “There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack”

Are you sure? Fully “steer by wire” vehicles with no mechanical steering link are already in production. The Tesla Cybertruck is the most well-known example.

Toyota/Lexus has also been demonstrating steer-by-wire for a while (Lexus RZ), and it will apparently ship in consumer vehicles later this year.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't feel the hydraulic feedback in the brake pedal (just the ABS buzzing), and gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages.

> gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages. In my EV it literally is a potentiometer. I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. Also, since it's just a pot, I don't know why there's not a speed mode for it, it to make it operate the cruise control speed set-point rather than…

> I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip.

The throttle is separated from the wheels/ground by the transmission and the whole engine, which makes me wonder if the response you felt probably was a combination of eg rpm/physical vibration and a few other factors. It should be possible to recreate these even in an EV, then.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#99
post #79
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally cannot stand power steering systems. There’s always a dead zone and the feedback is delayed, in some vehicles more noticeably than in others, but it’s always there. I feel like I have had several close calls that would have been accidents for sure had I been driving with power steering.

What car do you have without power steering? Or, are you referring to electric as opposed to hydraulic power steering? I haven't seen a car without power steering since the early 00s (which was a 90s car). The steering deadzone is not purely a function of power steering. Some of it is design or could be attributed to that, but a bunch of it also comes from slop in the physical connections in the steering column, as w…

I once drove an early car with an electric steering assist system. (It was either a renta or a test drive, I think it was an American car, and I don’t remember what brand or model.). It was terrible. There was essentially no feedback from the road to the wheel.

These systems have improved.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#100
post #86

The trend of touch screens replacing physical controls in domains where muscle memory is an advantage is an utter atrocity. No amount of interface versatility/flexibility can come close to touching the utility of not having to take your eyes off your subject. NONE.

Not to mention that on cars like Tesla, UI updates will change the location of these buttons.

This drives me INSANE. The other one: some of the Tesla UIs feel like they were made with "minimalism" in mind. For instance the rear defroster vs the windshield defroster. I still, 3 years into my model Y, have no idea which is which, and every time I need to defrost the front windshield it's like a fight against the HVAC system and buttons and touchscreens to make it do anything.

I love my tesla, probably to the point of being annoying, but I **HATE** the ridiculous "minimalist" UI stuff, and I absolutely hate it when they push a UI update which moves things around.

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