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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

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Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#51

Post by jbm »

izzydata wrote: post #38
breadwinner wrote: post #11

Couldn't agree more. Tesla is the biggest violator. In new Teslas, they are removing physical stalks, so if you want to reverse the car, you have to use on-screen controls!

Everything I ever hear about Tesla's keeps getting worse and worse. How are they still in business and why does anyone buy one?

I bought a used Model 3 that has the stalk and works fine. (The lack of wiper controls is absolutely ridiculous and is part of the Jonny Ive-ification of cars)

As for why they are in business, it is because they were first to market with Electric cars, and as a consumer I trust they are better at battery management than other companies that are not all-in on electric. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that the degenerate billionaires that run other car companies are not better than the degenerate billionaire who runs Tesla.

(I would not buy the new models wo/ physical controls, my next electric car will probably be something Chinese in 10 years)

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#52

Post by xyzelement »

oidar wrote: post #19

If I was buying a new car in the US today, which automakers are doing a better job wrt physical controls?

I have a 2021 Toyota Highlander and always fail to relate to these threads. Everything that matters is a physical control.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#53

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

amluto wrote: post #41
I_Am_Nous wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my steering wheel isn't connected to my front wheels mechanically, that's asking for a lot of trust. Previously a severe mechanical issue would be the only thing to worry about. Maybe on an EV with always connected and charged batteries it would be better, but on ICE I can imagine a number of ways the electrical system suddenly fails and now the wheel does nothing, even if just for a short lag. At least on brake b…

Having previously driven a car with a mildly unreliable power steering system, it’s an extremely good thing that the power steering was backed up with a mechanical linkage (that worked very well — it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph). A drive-by-wire system had better be a lot more reliable and also notice impending failures.

> it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph

It's not a problem at those speeds, having it crap out when turning slowly and sharply around fast traffic is much more likely to be deadly.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#54

Post by devmor »

amluto wrote: post #41
I_Am_Nous wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my steering wheel isn't connected to my front wheels mechanically, that's asking for a lot of trust. Previously a severe mechanical issue would be the only thing to worry about. Maybe on an EV with always connected and charged batteries it would be better, but on ICE I can imagine a number of ways the electrical system suddenly fails and now the wheel does nothing, even if just for a short lag. At least on brake b…

Having previously driven a car with a mildly unreliable power steering system, it’s an extremely good thing that the power steering was backed up with a mechanical linkage (that worked very well — it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph). A drive-by-wire system had better be a lot more reliable and also notice impending failures.

I personally cannot stand power steering systems. There’s always a dead zone and the feedback is delayed, in some vehicles more noticeably than in others, but it’s always there.

I feel like I have had several close calls that would have been accidents for sure had I been driving with power steering.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#55

Post by theGnuMe »

userbinator wrote: post #50
c22 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pedals do not behave the same.

You mean you don't press the left one to stop, and the right one to go?

No, it’s the feedback loop. You feel the hydraulic system for the brakes and the steering. If you have an accelerator cable then you feel that tension as well… but the accelerator feel is less important.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#56

Post by [deleted] »

bhpm wrote: post #23
cwillu wrote: post #2

A start, but not far enough: anything a driver might be reasonably expected to do while driving should have a physical control. Zero-force, zero-feedback, zero-travel controls should be illegal for such functions.

Wouldn’t it be safer to require all cars to have voice controls? Then the driver doesn’t have to move their hand off the wheel at all.

[deleted]

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#58

Post by spdustin »

userbinator wrote: post #50
c22 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pedals do not behave the same.

You mean you don't press the left one to stop, and the right one to go?

You don't feel the hydraulic feedback in the brake pedal (just the ABS buzzing), and gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#59

Post by ruined »

amluto wrote: post #43
bhpm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t it be safer to require all cars to have voice controls? Then the driver doesn’t have to move their hand off the wheel at all.

“Hey car, honk the horn” “Hey car, signal left” “Hey car, reverse” You’re kidding, right? Even if this worked far better than Siri, it’s too slow.

HEYCARSTOP STOP STOPHEY CAR STOP STOP HEYCAR STOP

*bong* i don't have that answer

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#60

Post by bhpm »

amluto wrote: post #43
bhpm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t it be safer to require all cars to have voice controls? Then the driver doesn’t have to move their hand off the wheel at all.

“Hey car, honk the horn” “Hey car, signal left” “Hey car, reverse” You’re kidding, right? Even if this worked far better than Siri, it’s too slow.

None of those controls are commonly located on a touch screen, which is the topic of the article.
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