European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls • Hacker News Board

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#81

Post by Reason077 » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:56 AM UTC

focusgroup0 wrote: post #30

bhpm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t it be safer to require all cars to have voice controls? Then the driver doesn’t have to move their hand off the wheel at all.

I took a ride with an owner of a brand new BMW with glass cockpit and minimal buttons. He complained to the dealer about not being able to find any of the actions in the endlessly nested menus. The dealer's response: Use voice controls. He tried it, and it's even worse than Siri in terms of reliability. Absolute unmitigated disaster.

I’ve yet to find any car where the voice control works speedily and reliably, unless using Siri via CarPlay.

(Siri is actually pretty great at accurately recognising words, it’s just not always so good at doing something useful with them…)

Even Tesla’s is really bad: “Turn off the wipers” frequently gets interpreted as “turn off the wife please” or other similar nonsense.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#82

Post by tristor » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:57 AM UTC

culopatin wrote: post #80

tristor wrote: post #66

This was the primary reason I bought my 2024 Mazda3, instead of alternatives in market. The Mazda was the only option that had physical controls for everything. In fact it disables the touch screen altogether when you exceed 10mph, forcing the use of physical controls. It works flawlessly with wireless carplay

The Mazda 3 is such a pretty car in and out. I wish there was an AWD turbo manual or a fully electric one. Either one will make me replace the Prius.

I wish the Turbo AWD (which is what I have) was available as a manual as well, but I will say the transmission in it is pretty decent.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#83

Post by nicce » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:58 AM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #12

Touch screens are cheaper but step backwards in UX and ergonomics. If you need to look at the screen and your finger for basic functions, that's not different from using mobile phone while driving.

> Touch screens are cheaper

How I feel like that this price is not considered for the end user, at all…

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#84

Post by dzhiurgis » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:58 AM UTC

Having been driving Tesla for nearly a year went on a trip last week and got 2015 Toyota. Air con wasn't easier to control even after 6 days of driving. Still had to look at 10+ buttons all crammed up in 6cm diameter ring and figure out what is what.

With Tesla 99% of time I just flip temperature slider at bottom corner. For rest - open larger menu for very intuitive extra controls.

Kinda insane how mass media is picking up worst implementations from legacy auto and extrapolate that to a car that has best UX. It's literally 180 degree turn disinformation.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#85

Post by dukeofdoom » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:59 AM UTC

Reminds me of the adidas run tracking app. I need to go forward and back in the menu to even start a run. Then it does a countdown. So you start, because why wait until the end of the countdown. Once your phone is in the pocket. Then it decides that you need confirm something like (GPS signal is weak) through a popup. Of course you have no idea it did that. So you pull out your phone once you get back to your car, only to realize it wasn't tracing anything at all. On the opposite end, it's never smart enough to realize that you're no longer running and you got in your car and started driving. So it will happily add tens of kms. Then to correct it you somehow need to change the distance, time and km separately.

It's like it's an incredible combination of both smart and stupid at the same time. You have to tap, double tap, slide, and press and hold at different places in the UI too.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#86

Post by cfr2023 » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:59 AM UTC

The trend of touch screens replacing physical controls in domains where muscle memory is an advantage is an utter atrocity.

No amount of interface versatility/flexibility can come close to touching the utility of not having to take your eyes off your subject. NONE.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#87

Post by onionisafruit » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:00 AM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #49

userbinator wrote: post #16

But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? IMHO the driving UX peaked in the 1960s, and was largely unchanged into the 2000s, until touch screens started taking over. Compare: https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads... https://images-stag.…

> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? Yes: https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-F... Well ... "are" is kinda stretching it...

My grandmother used to have a car where the horn was a button at the end of one of the stems. I think it was on the same stem that controlled the wipers. I wish I remembered what kind of car it was. I think it was from the 40s.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#88

Post by culopatin » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:00 AM UTC

piotrkaminski wrote: post #68

breadwinner wrote: post #11

Couldn't agree more. Tesla is the biggest violator. In new Teslas, they are removing physical stalks, so if you want to reverse the car, you have to use on-screen controls!

> if you want to reverse the car, you have to use on-screen controls! So? If you're switching to reverse then by definition you're stopped (or nearly so) and can afford to take your eyes off the road. The control is no further than most cars' center tunnel-mounted gear levers. Plus it only has the two common drive/reverse settings accessible via the swiping action, rather than all the rarely-used options. (Do you kno…

That you can still look at your surroundings with the stalk and keep a tab on what people around you are doing. Without the stalk someone can walk into a blind spot and you didn’t catch them because you were finding reverse on the screen. The person next to you is getting ready to open their door. Or simply you want to make a 3 point turn quickly without being stopped in the middle of the street fiddling with a screen

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#89

Post by static_void_ » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:01 AM UTC

I_Am_Nous wrote: post #18

userbinator wrote: post #16

But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? IMHO the driving UX peaked in the 1960s, and was largely unchanged into the 2000s, until touch screens started taking over. Compare: https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads... https://images-stag.…

>At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. For now, companies are experimenting with drive by wire. Don't think I like that concept.

Electronic power steering already exists. It's used in a lot of cars, and has been for at least 10 years. Your car may have one of these systems in it.

In an electric power steering system there are steering angle and torque sensors that know what direction the wheel is turned an how hard it has turned, and this is connected to an electric motor that powers the gears to move the steering rack.

There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack, but try and turn the wheel with the car off and see if your wheels move... But when the car is running when you turn the wheel you're just a voting remember in the system.

There are no such regulations for throttles. Pretty much every car since the late 80s has electronic throttle control and there are no mechanical linkages from pedal to throttle body.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#90

Post by tom_ » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 3:01 AM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #49

userbinator wrote: post #16

But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? IMHO the driving UX peaked in the 1960s, and was largely unchanged into the 2000s, until touch screens started taking over. Compare: https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads... https://images-stag.…

> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? Yes: https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-F... Well ... "are" is kinda stretching it...

My 1995 Renault Clio had it as a button on the indicator stalk. Worked very well, in my view. Much easier than pressing the centre of the steering wheel. There's often no need to even move your hand!