Some folks may remember this discussion, from a couple of years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30140984
I thought you were going to post this one
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23702560
European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
61–70 of 660 posts
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#62Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#63A start, but not far enough: anything a driver might be reasonably expected to do while driving should have a physical control. Zero-force, zero-feedback, zero-travel controls should be illegal for such functions.
Wouldn’t it be safer to require all cars to have voice controls? Then the driver doesn’t have to move their hand off the wheel at all.
Pretty impossible to have a conversation with a passenger then.
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#64Touchscreens tend to be a plague in cars—the last place you want sluggish non-responsive visual attention magnets. What's worse, a poorly engineered and implemented one may render your vehicle inoperable (safety-wise) and thus force you to expend exorbitant amount of money to get them replaced. Physical buttons are high availability and do not depend on absurd amounts of complexity to perform basic functions. It's impossible not to pay attention to this after being burned once by it. Even if a car may offer some limited physical buttons (such as defrosting) for the least ease of access, it may happen that you're unable to revert its secondary effects until you get it fixed.
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#65But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? IMHO the driving UX peaked in the 1960s, and was largely unchanged into the 2000s, until touch screens started taking over. Compare: https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads... https://images-stag.…
I think the issue with the horn is referring to the Tesla Model S. And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons. Which in a safety situation was difficult to locate and press.
Not the least bit helped by the fact that there seem to be several models all called the "Model S", but with very different controls.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259C...
For vehicles manufactured as of approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press the middle of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). For vehicles manufactured prior to approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press and hold the horn button on the right side of the steering yoke (or steering wheel).
"press and hold" doesn't seem like it'd be easy to do if all you wanted was a quick toot.
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#66This was the primary reason I bought my 2024 Mazda3, instead of alternatives in market. The Mazda was the only option that had physical controls for everything. In fact it disables the touch screen altogether when you exceed 10mph, forcing the use of physical controls. It works flawlessly with wireless carplay
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#67> In 2026, Euro NCAP points will be deducted if some controls aren't physical.
> Euro NCAP is not a government regulator, so it has no power to mandate carmakers use physical controls for those functions.
Why isn't this headline clickbait, what am I missing?
edit: the headline used to have the word Regulator in it.
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#68Couldn't agree more. Tesla is the biggest violator. In new Teslas, they are removing physical stalks, so if you want to reverse the car, you have to use on-screen controls!
> if you want to reverse the car, you have to use on-screen controls!
So? If you're switching to reverse then by definition you're stopped (or nearly so) and can afford to take your eyes off the road. The control is no further than most cars' center tunnel-mounted gear levers. Plus it only has the two common drive/reverse settings accessible via the swiping action, rather than all the rarely-used options. (Do you know how many times I've shifted into Neutral or Low by mistake in an unfamiliar car...?)
What exactly is the risk?
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#69[dead]
Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
You mean you don't press the left one to stop, and the right one to go?
You don't feel the hydraulic feedback in the brake pedal (just the ABS buzzing), and gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages.
> gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages.
In my EV it literally is a potentiometer. I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip.
Also, since it's just a pot, I don't know why there's not a speed mode for it, it to make it operate the cruise control speed set-point rather than torque.